2017 NCAAs

What do you predict for nationals? Who is going to shine, who is not?

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N Dynamite
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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by N Dynamite » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:48 pm

watercows wrote:Do you happen to recall when "Step 5" entered the selection criteria? Is it new? I seem to recall in the (recent?) past that, after all A-cuts were entered (and now, the very few A-cut entries), the NCAA then added 16 relays--period. After that, the line fell across the individual events until hitting the cap. But I just don't remember adjustments to the relay line with the goal of keeping it w/in one line of the individual events.
I'm pretty sure this is the first time it's come into play. I don't remember the line ever not getting past 16 for the individuals since they changed the process to this, so I think it may have been there when they started taking 16 relays
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wiswimdad
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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by wiswimdad » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:58 pm

N Dynamite wrote:
watercows wrote:Do you happen to recall when "Step 5" entered the selection criteria? Is it new? I seem to recall in the (recent?) past that, after all A-cuts were entered (and now, the very few A-cut entries), the NCAA then added 16 relays--period. After that, the line fell across the individual events until hitting the cap. But I just don't remember adjustments to the relay line with the goal of keeping it w/in one line of the individual events.
I'm pretty sure this is the first time it's come into play. I don't remember the line ever not getting past 16 for the individuals since they changed the process to this, so I think it may have been there when they started taking 16 relays
I thought '14-15 it went to 19-21 (a few ties at 20 & 21).

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N Dynamite
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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by N Dynamite » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:21 pm

But that wouldn't have impacted the relays going to 16. I don't think the individual line has been under 15 since they started this new process.
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lc503
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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by lc503 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:28 pm

If I remember correctly, there was a year where the individuals only went to line 14 or 15 with the 16 relay rule. So they added the additional rule that you could take a way a row of relays if there was the discrepancy between individual lines and relay lines.

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imJumbo
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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by imJumbo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:01 pm

when/where are the relay names revealed?

lc503
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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by lc503 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:49 pm

Relay names will come out when the invited swimmers come out. But you can look them up on the USA swimming event rank. For aggregates, you have to do the math to see what four make up the time.

According to my math there are:
192 relay men through 16 lines
181 relay men if you only go through 15 lines
170 relay men if you only go through 14 lines

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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by purpleandwhite » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:03 pm

imJumbo wrote:when/where are the relay names revealed?
My understanding that you must submit relay "names" for those relays that make the invite time. This has already happened. You can also submit relays that are not "invited" if you have four swimmers that are on the invite list. These "uninvited relays" do not need names, because if you don't make the invite times you can only enter these relays with swimmers already invited (in other words they don't add to the max number). Names can be changed at the meet as long as relay only swimmers swim at least one heat of the relay. If a team has an invited relay with all invited swimmer they can change the names at any time.

This thread is almost moot....all changes have been submitted and the selection process begins tomorrow at 10:00 a.m

swimming2008
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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by swimming2008 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:41 pm

16 relays will be selected. The only year the individual line was 15 was when there were a ton (23?) of A cuts in the 100 fly.

After that year, the NCAA changed the criteria for an A cut and it hasn't been an issue since.

There is no way the individual line will go to 12 - the person that wrote that has no idea how the selection process works.

The men's line went to 19 last year.

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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by N Dynamite » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:18 pm

I know how the process works. I was demonstrating how ridiculous it was to say the individual line was only going to get to 11. Sorry, maybe I should have quoted Nigel Tufnel instead.
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watercows
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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by watercows » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:49 am

swimming2008 wrote:16 relays will be selected. The only year the individual line was 15 was when there were a ton (23?) of A cuts in the 100 fly.

After that year, the NCAA changed the criteria for an A cut and it hasn't been an issue since.

There is no way the individual line will go to 12 - the person that wrote that has no idea how the selection process works.

The men's line went to 19 last year.

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iliketurtles
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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by iliketurtles » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:24 am

Looks like with 16 relays, the line would only make it to 11 individuals, so the 16th place relays will be dropped. This brings it to the 14th individual line. There will therefore be 15 relays and 14 individuals selected per event.

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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by imJumbo » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:23 am

this doesn't make sense. i haven't done a manual calc, but you're saying that if we fill the 16 relays, that including those swimmers in the lines of individual swimmers we make 11? either thats not right, or what the hell are schools making their relays from if not their fastest swimmers?

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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by iliketurtles » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:34 am

imJumbo wrote:this doesn't make sense. i haven't done a manual calc, but you're saying that if we fill the 16 relays, that including those swimmers in the lines of individual swimmers we make 11? either thats not right, or what the hell are schools making their relays from if not their fastest swimmers?
Filling in all the relays takes you to 189 swimmers, add in 24 divers and you're already at 213, leaving space for only 47 swimmers that aren't in the meet through relays. The people swimming on top 16 relays only filled enough spots to where it took 47 individual event only swimmers to reach line 11. Once you eliminate line 16 of relays you take away enough relay only swimmers to reach line 14 individually.

swimming2008
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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by swimming2008 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:55 am

I have not run the numbers either, but I find it incredibly hard to believe it would only go to line 11 or 12.

The far majority of the swimmers in lines above 12 are on relays and are ranked in the top 12 in multiple individual events... and I'd say that applies to the top 16 in individual events... Those people don't get recounted towards the cap because they are already in the meet.

If you look at the top 12 in the 100 breast, 100 back, 100 fly and 100 free, nearly every single one of them are on relays.

I just quickly looked at the 100 Back.
- Lin
- Ono
- Bowen
- Williams
- Moody - Relay
- Wesseling
- Kuyl
- Bauer
- Edskes

All of them will be the backstroker on their team's relay... so they will not count towards the individual cap.


47 people not on relays should alone add 5 or 6 (maybe more) lines to the meet. Those 47 people will not just be swimming 1 event - they will be swimming 3 events and will probably be ranked in the top 19 in their other 1 or 2 events...

I simply can't believe the line will be at 11 or 12. I've been through this process a lot and I don't think it's possible... but I guess we will find out in a few hours.

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Re: 2017 NCAAs

Post by lc503 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:33 am

Here are the individuals that will be selected in line 11 or higher that are from teams with multiple relays in the meet, yet aren't on one. Kenyon has 6, Denison 5, JHU 3, NYU 2. That's how you only get into line 11.

2 Greenhalgh Andrew JHU
2 Reardon Ian Kenyon-OH
3 Ball Jake Denison-OH
3 Hensen Reid NYU-MR
4 Bartholomew Michael Kenyon-OH
5 Wang Bebe Denison-OH
6 Bechtold Raphael JHU
6 Perez David Kenyon-OH
6 Rumpit Connor Kenyon-OH
7 Colmenares Caique NYU-MR
7 Culjat Lance Chicago-IL
7 Hedman Matthew Denison-OH
7 Kralj Tim MIT-MA
7 Kuyl Emile JHU
8 Allsop Kieran Kenyon-OH
8 Trunsky Andrew Williams-NE
9 Leenhouts Matt Kenyon-OH
10 Marsden-Readford Liam Denison-OH
11 Burdick Ben Denison-OH
11 Copses Henry Emory-GA

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