PAC Representation at NCAAs

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MentalEdge
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PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by MentalEdge » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:08 am

It was interesting talking with Caleb about how much faster the PAC got while he was away last year. There certainly was a lot of really fast swimming. That line of people with NCAA cuts was very long. I went through the results and pulled out everyone (that I saw) who was under last year's qualifying time in their events. Let me know if I missed anyone. Then I tried to rank them based on the likelihood of representing the PAC in Minneapolis. Anyone care to guess who will be in or out? Also, is there anyone who was over last year's cut that could be in this year?

GCC MEN
Caleb Courage (more A cuts than you can shake a stick at)
Timmy Whitbeck (A cuts in 50 & 100 Free)
Kirk Gagliardo (2, 4, & 8 FR, 200 Free)
Peter Larsen (4 FR, 100 Fly, 2 MR)
Drew Snyder (2 FR)
Cam Coppelli (4 MR, 2 MR) [1:32.1 2MR]
Clay Beckner (2 MR)
Ben Bowser (2 IM, 4 MR, 4 IM, 100 Fly, 200 Breast) [50.1 1Fly, 4:04.4 4IM]
Nate Nielsen (8 FR) [6:47.4 8FR]
Nick Hamilton (8 FR)
Bennett Keefer (4 MR) [3:23.9 4MR]

WC MEN
Aaron Whisman (200 Free) [1:40.9 2Free]
Chris Lehberger (200 Breast) [2:05.15 2Breast]
Brett Gerthoffer (200 Free) [1:41.6 2Free]
Ben Gutmann (100 Breast, 200 Breast) [57.3 1Breast, 2:05.7 2Breast]

W&J MEN
Brandon Smith (200 Back) [1:53.0 2Back]

GCC WOMEN
Amanda Thompson (100 Back, 2 MR) [58.22 1Back]
Sarah Bargery (2 MR, 100 Breast) [1:06.7 1Breast]
Sarah Page (2 MR) [1:47.83 2MR]
Lauren Baur (2 MR)
Jenna Richert (2 Free) [1:54.7 2Free]

WC WOMEN
Caitlin Lehberger (2 IM, 4 MR, 2 MR, 1*ACUT* & 2 Breast)
Emily Dressler (500 Free, 4 MR, 200 Free, Mile)
Natalie Rambish (4 MR, 1 & 2 Back, 2 MR)
Megan Mier (4 MR, 2 MR, 100 Fly, 1 & 2 Back)
Maile Kirkpatrick (2 MR) [1:46.3 2MR]
"Wow, deodorant doesn't taste as good as it smells!" ~Timmy Whitbeck

weedwacker2000
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Re: PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by weedwacker2000 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:45 pm

Outsider Smoker or coach - Are there any special NCAA rules to submit an aggregate relay time? Can an aggregate time be submitted for any relay event? Or is it only done when a team has DQ'd a relay, as what happened with GCC's 400FR? Just looking over the times for the 800 relay, I find that Grove City has about a 2 second faster aggregate time then what was actually swum last Friday night.

Courage, lead off - 1:39.66
Hamilton, 200 prelim - 1:42.07
Nielsen, 200 prelim - 1:42.79
Gagliardo, 200 final - 1:41.04

When I add up these numbers I get a time of 6:45.56, which beats out the time of 6:47.47. That of course will give them a better chance of qualifying.

I also checked on the 400MR. Here's what I get (provided we can use Tim Whitbeck's 100 free time for two different aggregates, and provided we can use for here different swimmers than the original relay from Thursday night):

Courage, 100 back final - 50.21
Keefer, 100 breast final - 57.53
Bowser, 100 fly TT - 50.17
Whitbeck, 100 free final - 44.82

These add up to 3:22.73, which is better than a second over the regular time.

OutsideSmoker27
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Re: PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by OutsideSmoker27 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:01 pm

Coach Fritz can answer this more fully than I, but briefly, not only can you submit an aggregate time but you must submit an aggregate if it is the fastest combination available of four swims by different swimmers. This goes for any relay, DQ'd or not. (I'm not sure if you can make an exception if you have to in order to keep someone out of 5 relays).

I had heard 3:22.73 quoted over the weekend as the planned submission time for the 4MR, and also something about 6:45 for the 800 (though I hadn't heard the specific hundredths, so thank you much for that, weedwacker). I also heard a rumor that the 4FR aggregate is somewhere in the 3:01.xx range. I didn't hear where they got that number, but something suspects me it was from the times that Caleb, Timmy, Peter, and Kirk swam in the open 100 on Saturday night (44.40, 44.82, 46.25, 46.30). That combination is 3:01.77. And that should get them into the meet.
Families share the bond of blood; teams share the bond of toil, tears, and sweat. Both share the bond of the heart.

Pearl86
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Re: PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by Pearl86 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:47 pm

OutsideSmoker27 wrote:I also heard a rumor that the 4FR aggregate is somewhere in the 3:01.xx range. I didn't hear where they got that number, but something suspects me it was from the times that Caleb, Timmy, Peter, and Kirk swam in the open 100 on Saturday night (44.40, 44.82, 46.25, 46.30). That combination is 3:01.77. And that should get them into the meet.
Kirk went a 46.19 for the leadoff on the relay, which still counts even though it was DQ'd right? That would make the agg time a 3:01.66
"When you come to a fork in the road, look around for a knife and a spoon"

OutsideSmoker27
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Re: PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by OutsideSmoker27 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:41 am

Pearl86 wrote:
OutsideSmoker27 wrote:I also heard a rumor that the 4FR aggregate is somewhere in the 3:01.xx range. I didn't hear where they got that number, but something suspects me it was from the times that Caleb, Timmy, Peter, and Kirk swam in the open 100 on Saturday night (44.40, 44.82, 46.25, 46.30). That combination is 3:01.77. And that should get them into the meet.
Kirk went a 46.19 for the leadoff on the relay, which still counts even though it was DQ'd right? That would make the agg time a 3:01.66
Good point, you're absolutely right ("a time achieved by a competitor during the first leg of a relay race shall not be nullified by the subsequent disqualification of a different member of the same relay team"). 3:01.66 it is.

I wonder if I needed to provide any documentation in Meet Manager that it was a later leg that caused the DQ? Probably not, since The Box has the officials' written signatures saying so (at least, it's in my best interest to believe this).
Families share the bond of blood; teams share the bond of toil, tears, and sweat. Both share the bond of the heart.

MentalEdge
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Re: PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by MentalEdge » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:40 am

Ok, so it looks like all of Grove City's men's relays appear pretty safe... for now. Caleb and Timmy already have A cuts and Ben Bowser is on the bubble to get invited for a few individual events, but everyone else will probably be relay only.
The NCAA only invites 63 relay-only swimmers to the meet and Grove City wants to have 8 of them (nearly 13%). I'm wondering if the inevitable faster invite times for this year will cause more relay-only swimmers (and therefore less relays).
"Wow, deodorant doesn't taste as good as it smells!" ~Timmy Whitbeck

openwater
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Re: PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by openwater » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:25 am

Yes this year could have a historically low number of relay invites - last year the women's meet barely cracked the 9th row of relays for this exact same reason - the men could easily stall out in the 8th row this year.
Once a competitive swimmer, you can become anything.

swim5599
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Re: PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by swim5599 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:21 am

Two things. 1. gagliardo has his b cut in the 200 free, so he would not be considered relay only. Correct? 2. Was it Larsen that jumped in that relay?

openwater
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Re: PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by openwater » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:54 am

swim5599 wrote:Two things. 1. gagliardo has his b cut in the 200 free, so he would not be considered relay only. Correct?
If you don't get invited in an individual event I think you still count against the relay cap. You would then be able to swim your B-cuts but would be part of the 'gang of 63'.
Once a competitive swimmer, you can become anything.

MentalEdge
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Re: PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by MentalEdge » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:21 pm

Yes you still count against the relay even if you have B cuts. Almost every one of Grove City's relay-only prospects have at least one B cut.
The exchange from Larsen to Whitbeck was the one that got the DQ.
"Wow, deodorant doesn't taste as good as it smells!" ~Timmy Whitbeck

swim5599
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Re: PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by swim5599 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:39 am

Ok Got it, I could not remember it has been awhile. Man that relay looked so special. Too bad bout the jump.

weedwacker2000
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Re: PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by weedwacker2000 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Now that the second week on various conference meets have concluded, looks like the Westminster women's 400 MR will get an invite to Minneapolis. Congrats to them!! I hope to see them do well at Nationals. Caitlyn Lehberger's breaststroke abilities really made quite a difference for them getting their times to be competitive.

Looks like all the Grove City men's free relays should make the cut for Nationals. I predict only one to three teams for each free relay from the remaining meets in New England, New York and ECAC making it under Grove City's times. Anyway that should get them a total of seven swimmers to Minneapolis. However there is still a very slim chance that Ben Bowser could qualify for the 200IM, as well as the 200 MR getting in.

Prospects at Nationals? The 200 FR and 400 FR should get in the top three provided they get their relay exchanges right. The 800 relay hopefully make top 8. Depending on how Coach Klamut gets his gals to retaper, they should come in within the top 10 teams for the 400 MR and top 16 for the 200 MR.

weedwacker2000
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Re: PAC Representation at NCAAs

Post by weedwacker2000 » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:50 pm

Wow!! Looks like the Division 3 swimming "gods" were particularly favorable to Grove City this year. All 5 relays get in, with 11 total invites. (Four seniors, three sophs and four freshmen.) Congrats!! Just ten years ago the entire men's roster for the year was 11. What is encouraging to see is the combination of the four experienced seniors all having All-American to their credit, and a good group of underclassmen. They should get a really good taste of higher levels of competition over that of the PAC conference championships. Should also be an incentive for them to return.

Hopefully we will have a large group of parents and other family members attending as well. For the Whitbecks this will be their eighth and final national meet, and I suspect the best ever. I remember my first national meet in Holland, MI. Since we had no GCC cheering section for Ben and Caleb, my wife and I ended up sitting with the Emory parents, who somehow find the best seats for watching :wink: .

Congratulation also to the 4 Westminster women who now have their official invites!! After having not scored the last two years, they most definitely will get some evening swims this year. I'm not sure about the other GCC parents, etc., but I intend to cheer for Westminster as well.

As for points scored, I'm predicting that Grove City will get between 175 and 200 (No DQs, please!). Westminster between 20 and 35. Anyway - best to all attending; see you in Minneapolis!

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