Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

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el radio
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Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by el radio » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:44 pm

Shocking news from the world of Holland, MI

Hope's 2 and 4 Free Relay had an opportunity For a last chance meet at Kenyon this upcoming saturday to do some time trials. Unfortunately, even after JP's talk, Ryan Nelis has declined the opportunity and refused to time trial both "Freelays" this saturday.

The deadline for them to get in for time trials is 9:00 tonight, so minds can still be swayed, but most likely to no avail.

That's a bold move Cotton, let's see if it pays off!!!!
"If it's any help, I've learned that life is one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by Low Tide » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:01 pm

el radio wrote:Shocking news from the world of Holland, MI

Hope's 2 and 4 Free Relay had an opportunity For a last chance meet at Kenyon this upcoming saturday to do some time trials. Unfortunately, even after JP's talk, Ryan Nelis has declined the opportunity and refused to time trial both "Freelays" this saturday.

The deadline for them to get in for time trials is 9:00 tonight, so minds can still be swayed, but most likely to no avail.

That's a bold move Cotton, let's see if it pays off!!!!
A bit of senioritis?
I hated last chance meets -- I'm not sure if I have ever seen a successful swim at a last chance meet, though I know it has obviously happened.
That said -- I always went for the team and gave it my all.
I think the only time Kzoo had a good swim (that I remember) at a last chance meet was probably a year or two before I got there, when Brian Miller completely missed his taper and qualified a week later.

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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by ThePretender » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:07 pm

el radio wrote:Hope's 2 and 4 Free Relay had an opportunity For a last chance meet at Kenyon this upcoming saturday to do some time trials. Unfortunately, even after JP's talk, Ryan Nelis has declined the opportunity and refused to time trial both "Freelays" this saturday.
It may seem selfish on the part of Nelis however I believe it is a smart thing for him to focus on swimming fast at nationals in what he may already have made it in (the medlies and the 100 fly). He is a great swimmer and had a rough meet, enough said. I do not believe he turned down an "opportunity" or at least it was not an opportunity for him. Those relays had almost no chance of making it even if Nelis was swimming like he had at last years league meet.

The other swimmers on those relays that are not making it to nationals (Frayer and Tozer) would not only have had to drop time from an already great meet (which they did both have) they would have to become better swimmers in a week and that might be an impossible task.

It’s just not a great situation for either party. Nelis comes off as the bad guy because he does not want to swim at a second chance meet; however those two swimmers are being selfish if they get mad at a teammate for not wanting to risk his last taper meet ever by trying to end his swimming career with a good meet.

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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by silentp » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:50 pm

ThePretender wrote: Those relays had almost no chance of making it even if Nelis was swimming like he had at last years league meet.
Assuming it takes 1:22.89 and 3:04.00

200 FR -
Slowest split 21.22
Total Time 1:24.24
Difference 1.35
Nelis split needed, if everyone else holds 19.87

400 FR
He split 46.60
Assume .3 faster combined for Tozer and Frayer on starts
Total time 3:07.22
Difference 2.92
Nelis split needed, if everyone else holds 43.68

Good call not going.

Will they go for a medley?
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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by Derek » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:02 pm

My bias against Hope is well known and documented around here and I gotta say, Nelis is really making a smart and principled decision. Props to him for sticking to his guns and doing the right thing. I really hope his teammates give him the respect he deserves for making this tough decision.
silentp wrote:
ThePretender wrote: Those relays had almost no chance of making it even if Nelis was swimming like he had at last years league meet.
Assuming it takes 1:22.89 and 3:04.00

200 FR -
Slowest split 21.22
Total Time 1:24.24
Difference 1.35
Nelis split needed, if everyone else holds 19.87

400 FR
He split 46.60
Assume .3 faster combined for Tozer and Frayer on starts
Total time 3:07.22
Difference 2.92
Nelis split needed, if everyone else holds 43.68

Good call not going.

Will they go for a medley?

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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by Low Tide » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:39 am

Although the onus is on the swimmers who want to get to nationals to make the drops, not Nelis.
I can respect Nelis' decision, but if those guys thought they could do it, I would have gone for them.

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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by swim5599 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:52 am

Those medlies better get in then.

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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by DonCheadle » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:19 am

Who cares if Nelis finishes 11th or 15th in the 100 fly. In 10 years he will be the guy who didn't put it on the line for his team. I assure you making nationals for Tozer is a bigger deal than anything Nelis can do as an individual. The only way I could argue this out is if Nelis was a contender to win the 100 fly. He is not. Not even close. The issue at hand here is that Nelis is putting his own ambitions ahead of a teammates who stands to benefit more than him. "AS ONE," what a fucking joke.

Not to mention that Nelis is by no means a lock for the meet at this point.
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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by swim5599 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:43 pm

again he better hope those medlies get in. I could keep repeating this all day. He was for lack of a better word way off at conf meet. Why not give it a shot? Sounds a little bit like selfishness

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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by Stevo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:05 pm

Hope doesn't have the sprinters to make the national meet. I would be different if the times were close, but both relays are WAY off a time that will make the meet. I don't think Nelis is being selfish, I think he's being realistic.

Cheadle since you are all up on your high horse, does Hope have a shot at qualifying these relays? Answer that question honestly and then blast Nelis.
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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by DonCheadle » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:03 pm

Stevo wrote:Cheadle since you are all up on your high horse, does Hope have a shot at qualifying these relays? Answer that question honestly and then blast Nelis.
Does Hope have a shot at going 1:22.89? Probably not. Is it going to take that to make the meet? Probably not. I think it will be around 1:23.4 and yes I think Hope has a shot at that. Try:

20.8 AW
20.8 PF
21.0 CT
20.7 RN

Tell me where I have stretched it. Especially on a TT where you can gun the start. I honestly believe (since that is what you asked for) that Hope has a better shot at taking this relay to Nats than Nelis does at finaling in the 100 fly. I am also quite certain that Nelis is not giving up very much by going to this time trial meet. It is one thing to say, "guys I have to start builiding my base this week," it is another to say "I am not going."

One other thing: I have no problem with this at all if CT and PF are fine with it.
Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!

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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by Stevo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:18 pm

I think both of us dont' know the full story. I DOUBT that everyone is committed to going to the meet aside from Nelis, and he has said no. I'm sure they talked about it as a team and made a decision. I can't remember the last time hope went to a second chance meet, and if they thought they could make the meet in the 200FR they would have TT at league meet.

How credible is el radio?
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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by silentp » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:21 pm

Stevo wrote: How credible is el radio?
Unknown, however ThePretender is very credible:
ThePretender wrote:It may seem selfish on the part of Nelis however I believe it is a smart thing for him to focus on swimming fast at nationals in what he may already have made it in (the medlies and the 100 fly). He is a great swimmer and had a rough meet, enough said. I do not believe he turned down an "opportunity" or at least it was not an opportunity for him. Those relays had almost no chance of making it even if Nelis was swimming like he had at last years league meet.

The other swimmers on those relays that are not making it to nationals (Frayer and Tozer) would not only have had to drop time from an already great meet (which they did both have) they would have to become better swimmers in a week and that might be an impossible task.

It’s just not a great situation for either party. Nelis comes off as the bad guy because he does not want to swim at a second chance meet; however those two swimmers are being selfish if they get mad at a teammate for not wanting to risk his last taper meet ever by trying to end his swimming career with a good meet.
Frank: Look, I didn't go to Vietnam just to have pansies like you take my freedom away from me.
Dee: You went to Vietnam in 1993 to open up a sweatshop!
Frank: ...and a lot of good men died in that sweatshop!

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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by DonCheadle » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:27 pm

Stevo wrote:I think both of us dont' know the full story. I DOUBT that everyone is committed to going to the meet aside from Nelis, and he has said no. I'm sure they talked about it as a team and made a decision. I can't remember the last time hope went to a second chance meet, and if they thought they could make the meet in the 200FR they would have TT at league meet.

How credible is el radio?
This is a very legitimate concern. I assume that El Radio wouldn't have thrown something out there so irresponsible if it was not true.

By the way, you are right. The real solution was to TT at league meet. Becuase the meet was so close I think JP was concerned about compromising his swimmer with a TT. This was a legit concern. If the meet had been a little closer and Hope does a TT after Saturday prelims, perhaps Welsch does not hold off BB in the 100? With HINDSITE:

Hope had the meet sealed up with a finish in the 400 Free Relay. Calvin pulled Rushlow, perhaps Hope could have pulled their quartet in favor of 4 seniors so that they could do the TT after meet? Kzoo sort of did this in 1999 for what it is worth.
Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!

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Re: Hope 2 and 4 Free Relays

Post by el radio » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:41 pm

DonCheadle wrote:Who cares if Nelis finishes 11th or 15th in the 100 fly. In 10 years he will be the guy who didn't put it on the line for his team. I assure you making nationals for Tozer is a bigger deal than anything Nelis can do as an individual.
Thank you cheadle.

I believe Tozer has every right to be pissed.

also...I would not throw something like that out in the air for everyone to see if it wasnt true. unless you want a sharkskin suit, then you're f***ed for sure.
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