2019 NCAAs

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2019 NCAAs

Postby purpleandwhite » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:09 am

Time to open a new thread. College Swimming has updated its list (unofficial) of top times from this weekend's meets.
Questions regarding selection process:

1) Relays 1....I remember once when they invited less than 16 relays. Reading the manual it appears they start with 16. Do they cut relays if the total cap is exceeded?

2) Relays 2....I seem to remember they now require that the fastest relay time be officially submitted to avoid "roster manipulation." Is this correct?

3) Relays 3....relay only swimmers must swim at least once the relay that got them into the meet. (First relay, must swim in prelims but can be swapped out at night in finals). Does this rule apply to relay-only swimmers entered in multiple relays? E.g. I'm a relay only swimmer....I swim in the prelims of the 200 free. I am also a relay only swimmer in the 800 free relay. Have I fulfilled my "swim in relay" requirement by my 200 free prelim swim or do I also need to swim in the 800 free relay.

Any guesses on where the line will fall for men/women individual/relays.
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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby polarbear » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:23 am

purpleandwhite wrote:Time to open a new thread. College Swimming has updated its list (unofficial) of top times from this weekend's meets.
Questions regarding selection process:

1) Relays 1....I remember once when they invited less than 16 relays. Reading the manual it appears they start with 16. Do they cut relays if the total cap is exceeded?

2) Relays 2....I seem to remember they now require that the fastest relay time be officially submitted to avoid "roster manipulation." Is this correct?

3) Relays 3....relay only swimmers must swim at least once the relay that got them into the meet. (First relay, must swim in prelims but can be swapped out at night in finals). Does this rule apply to relay-only swimmers entered in multiple relays? E.g. I'm a relay only swimmer....I swim in the prelims of the 200 free. I am also a relay only swimmer in the 800 free relay. Have I fulfilled my "swim in relay" requirement by my 200 free prelim swim or do I also need to swim in the 800 free relay.

Any guesses on where the line will fall for men/women individual/relays.


Without looking at the rule book --
1. No, they do A cuts (likely no one), then 16 relays, then fill in line by line
2. Yes, thats how I understand it
I don't think so -- you have to swim in the relay that you made it in. If you made it in multiple relays its just one of them. An individual event cannot count as a relay leg. If you do not swim that relay any other relays or events you swam are DQed. I seem to remember a case of someone qualifying a in a 400FR, swimming a bunch of events, and then getting injured and not being able to swim 400FR. Not sure what happened there, i.e. is there an injury waiver. Theres not a "performance" waiver -- i.e. if they are swimming poorly and dont swim that relay but scored earlier in the meet then those swims (relay and individual) are removed.

Again, this is without looking at the book so please correct if I got it wrong.
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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby purpleandwhite » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:41 am

I actually re-read the selection process and IF after selecting 16 relays the cap is the exceeded they cut the slowest relay until they are under the cap. The slowest is defined in relation to the B cut (percentage greater than B cut). That's how we ended up one year with 15 400 free relays as invited (more swam obviously at the meet).
It seems to me that they should raise the cap for the men or make sure a minimum of 16 relays are invited.
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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby purpleandwhite » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:54 am

Some thoughts on NESCAC and Nationals this year (on the men's side).

1) Less NESCAC team qualified for NCAA this year than last (2018 Amherst, Bates, Bowdoin, Conn, Tufts and Williams ) versus 2019 Amherst, Bowdoin, Tufts and Williams. .

2) We could also see a different team finish at NCAAs than NESCAC. Williams has only one invited relay (800 free relay). Obviously they have the guys at the meet to put together a good 200/400 free relay but will they have the swimmers for 200 MR and 400 MR in the other strokes to score? Meanwhile, I believe both Amherst and Tufts qualified all relays. If this holds through taper then the points scored finish could be Tufts, Amherst and then Willliams based on relays. I do expect all three to finish in the top ten.
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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby polarbear » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:09 am

purpleandwhite wrote:Some thoughts on NESCAC and Nationals this year (on the men's side).

1) Less NESCAC team qualified for NCAA this year than last (2018 Amherst, Bates, Bowdoin, Conn, Tufts and Williams ) versus 2019 Amherst, Bowdoin, Tufts and Williams. .

2) We could also see a different team finish at NCAAs than NESCAC. Williams has only one invited relay (800 free relay). Obviously they have the guys at the meet to put together a good 200/400 free relay but will they have the swimmers for 200 MR and 400 MR in the other strokes to score? Meanwhile, I believe both Amherst and Tufts qualified all relays. If this holds through taper then the points scored finish could be Tufts, Amherst and then Willliams based on relays. I do expect all three to finish in the top ten.


Bowdoin men certainly didnt qualify a relay last year. Women did, but not the men.
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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby polarbear » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:09 am

polarbear wrote:
purpleandwhite wrote:Some thoughts on NESCAC and Nationals this year (on the men's side).

1) Less NESCAC team qualified for NCAA this year than last (2018 Amherst, Bates, Bowdoin, Conn, Tufts and Williams ) versus 2019 Amherst, Bowdoin, Tufts and Williams. .

2) We could also see a different team finish at NCAAs than NESCAC. Williams has only one invited relay (800 free relay). Obviously they have the guys at the meet to put together a good 200/400 free relay but will they have the swimmers for 200 MR and 400 MR in the other strokes to score? Meanwhile, I believe both Amherst and Tufts qualified all relays. If this holds through taper then the points scored finish could be Tufts, Amherst and then Willliams based on relays. I do expect all three to finish in the top ten.


Bowdoin men certainly didnt qualify a relay last year. Women did, but not the men.


Ah, my fault -- I see you mean relays AND individuals. Got it, sorry.
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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby swimdad » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:27 am

Are the top times up to date and final? Meaning all racing and competition is completed pre NCAA?

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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby polarbear » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:41 am

swimdad wrote:Are the top times up to date and final? Meaning all racing and competition is completed pre NCAA?

[ Post made via iPad ]


the racing is completed. whether or not those lists are correct . . . . .
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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby purpleandwhite » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:27 am

Preliminary List is Attached
Attachments
19-2-25_pre-selection-entry-list.pdf
(135.44 KiB) Downloaded 149 times
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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby swimdad » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:08 am

Williams 4IM relay sitting at 16, does that make it?

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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby polarbear » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:23 am

swimdad wrote:Williams 4IM relay sitting at 16, does that make it?

[ Post made via iPad ]


Preliminary review by others posted in the national Championships section is that the line will go through 15 relays. I have not done a review myself.

I thought the process was A cuts, 16 relays, line by line in individual events -- clearly thats not correct.
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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby purpleandwhite » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:58 am

polarbear wrote:
swimdad wrote:Williams 4IM relay sitting at 16, does that make it?

[ Post made via iPad ]


Preliminary review by others posted in the national Championships section is that the line will go through 15 relays. I have not done a review myself.

I thought the process was A cuts, 16 relays, line by line in individual events -- clearly thats not correct.


This will be a nail biter. Polar Bear has it mostly right with one important caveat.....1) Select top 16 individuals and then 2) Select top 16 relays HOWEVER you must then look that the total number of swimmers invited and if it exceeds the men's swimmers cap (after setting aside a fixed number for divers) then you start cutting relays. The first relay eliminated will be that relay that is "slowest" (biggest difference in time percentage) from the B cut for that event. After cutting that relay you then check the cap enough again....if its still over the cap then go to the next slowest relay and eliminated etc (its actually implemented in a different way but this is the simpler explanation. That means the line could stop at 15 for some relays but 16 at others. It's going to be nail biter.

We'll be rooting for that line to be 16 for Williams as we bury team rivalries and root for our fellow conference members at Nationals.
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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby swimdad » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:00 am

Thanks for explanation. When will we officially know?

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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby imJumbo » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:07 am

One of my favorite things about this conference is once the conference meet is over, the whole nationals crew joins together and roots for each other. It’s a great way for swimmers on other teams to make friends and have some more fun with the rivalries.

Also leads to some wicked nationals parties (NCAA 2009... if you know what I’m talking about...)

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Re: 2019 NCAAs

Postby One&Done » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:40 am

While we are waiting to see about the all-important line, could someone shed some light on the "A" cuts? Specifically, what purpose do they serve? It looks like not a single D3 swimmer from any conference in any event achieved an A cut. Woudn't something like a cut equivalent to what it took to get to D3 NCAA A Finals heat the previous year make more sense as a very high but potentially reachable goal?
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