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d3swimming.com • View topic - Where did the KC points go?

Where did the KC points go?

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Where did the KC points go?

Postby openwater » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:26 pm

Not trying to be a jerk here but as the meet unfolded I was wondering where all the Kenyon women's points had gone? They scored 560 in 2009 and 318 in 2010 - why the difference of 242 points?

In 2009 they had 18 swimmers, 16 of whom scored individual points in a total of 37 evening swims (25 in the championship heat, 6 of these by seniors).
They had 5 individual champions, 3 of whom graduated along with 3 other seniors. The 6 seniors scored 124 individual points and contributed 8 of the 20 relay legs. The 2009 relays scored 30 more points than the 2010 relays, much of this difference likely attributable to the graduated seniors. So the 2009 seniors roughly accounted for 140-150 of the 242 point difference between 2009 and 2010.

In 2010 they had 14 swimmers, 10 of whom scored individual points in a total of 23 top 16 finishes (9 in the championship heat, none of these seniors).
The highest individual finish this year was a 3rd place by a first year swimmer - the 2 senior swimmers this year scored a total of 6 individual points and contributed 5 of the 20 relay legs.
These 14 swimmers included 8 of the 12 non-senior qualifiers from 2009 plus 4 freshmen, a sophomore and a junior. (The sophomore was Kenyon's 19th qualifier last year but had to stay home because of the 18 swimmer/team limit.)

This year's National Team for Kenyon was composed of 4 freshmen, 4 sophomores, 4 juniors and 2 seniors - a young bunch that, with the likely infusion of freshmen recruits, will be much more competitive in striving to return to the top 2-3 of D3 swimming in 2011. However WIlliams will not easily be dislodged from the top 3 and Denison is graduating more points than Williams so the race for the top spots should be much tighter next year.
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Re: Where did the KC points go?

Postby Father » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:39 am

What do you think will happen to Kenyon in the next 2-4 years? I feel like the women are soooo far behind particularly Denison and Emory that it will take A FEW good incoming classes to get back to a championship level. I don't think they'll be dominant again for many years, unless they bring in some ridiculously fast swimmers.

What do you all think?
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Re: Where did the KC points go?

Postby NCACDork » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:24 pm

I hear they have a good incoming class. I think they will get a good class and next year's meet will be close.

I would love to see the meet NOT be co-ed next year.
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Re: Where did the KC points go?

Postby Schiller » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:58 pm

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Re: Where did the KC points go?

Postby NCACDork » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:46 am

I personally don't want to watch the girls' meet. Also a 4-day meet is harder for people from out of town to catch every day of the meet.

For coaching staffs (of top-10 teams), it is much harder to coach men and women at the same time.

It's harder to remember the order of events for swammers who aren't used to the format.
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Re: Where did the KC points go?

Postby swimjunkie » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:13 pm

Having been to both single-sex and co-ed meets over the years, I would note that the co-ed meets the past two years were both WAY more exciting than the single-sex meet two years ago. Speaking as a spectator, I loved seeing both the men and women swimming fast, setting multiple records, etc. If you don't want to watch one or the other gender swim, don't watch (no one is belted into their seats). :) . The energy levels in the venue were appreciably higher for the co-ed meet (more parents, more team mates, more swimmers = more excitement, and, IMHO faster swimming). Given the times this year, it did not appear the women were "intimidated" or the men ... um ... distracted by being together :)

On a more pragmatic note, the cost to the NCAA (not an insignificant factor here) is likely far less for one venue, one week, than two venues in separate weeks. And with the increase in the number of swimmers next year, separate meets would be even more costly, unless they would go to lesser venues (I don't know about you, but I thought MN was a great facility in a fun city). Of course, I don't have the actual cost figures, maybe someone posting here does? As Charles Barkley notes in the title of his book, I could be worng - but I doubt it. And I don't buy the argument about the burden on the coaches; these guys (and girls) are professionals and the larger teams do get extra coaches on the deck; I think it would be the rare case where a coed meet negatviely impacted a good coach's ability to coach. I have too much respect for these folks.

You wouldn't happen to be the flyer that Todhunter beat, would you? :D (just kidding, no need to flame me here - I just think, having been to both, that the upside outweighs the downside).
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Re: Where did the KC points go?

Postby babwik » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:42 am

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Re: Where did the KC points go?

Postby openwater » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:56 am

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Re: Where did the KC points go?

Postby NCACDork » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:02 am

I strongly disagree that it's easier to coach a co-ed meet when you have 25+ swimmers there, esp. if you are trying to pay any sort of attention to each swimmer as an individual. I can see the not being around for the last week of taper, but I think that's outweighed.
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Re: Where did the KC points go?

Postby ajp » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:08 am

The cost savings for the NCAA of one week, one vaue, one trip (for coaches who come both weeks), and the advantage of being able to coach all athletes (and not leave the men for one week while at the women's meet) vastly outweigh the cons.

I was very skeptical last year of the combined meet, but having experienced it, I doubt they'll be going back any time soon. Everyone I talked to, loved the fact that it was combined, and it heightened the excitement of the meet.
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Re: Where did the KC points go?

Postby LordJeffFree » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:10 am

I definitely think it is more difficult to coach a coed meet at NCAAs, even for teams that have 12-15 people there (combined). Coaches have to treat a men's and a women's team completely differently, and the ability to balance both necessitates at least some compromise on both sides.

I personally thought that the atmosphere was much more exciting and conducive to success in the men's only meet than in the combined meet the next year after swimming in both of them.
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Re: Where did the KC points go?

Postby NCACDork » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:18 am

If I usually went to the women's meet, I would prefer a co-ed meet too I bet. Given that we are in the women's forum I can see where this preference comes in. Most guys I talked to preferred the men's-only meet, so I guess it's a mixed bag depending on who you talk to (and what he or she is used to).
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