Selection Row for Invites

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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby Low Tide » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:37 pm

Here are the improvement percentages from this year over last year:

1. 500: 5:00.72 vs. 5:06.52 1.9%
2. 100 fly: 57.29 vs. 58.28 1.7%
3. 1650: 17:22.09 vs. 17:37.28 1.4%
4. 50: 23.74 vs. 24.14 1.7%
5. 400im: 4:32.17 vs. 4:35.41 1.2%
6. 100free: 51.94 vs. 52.64 1.3%
7. 200free: 1:52.93 vs. 1:54.77 1.6%
8. 200fly: 2:07.21 vs. 2:07.39 .1%
9. 200im: 2:07.63 vs. 2:09.72 1.6%
10. 100back: 57.68 vs. 58.89 2.1%
11. 200br: 2:22.64 vs. 2:25.16 1.7%
12. 200back: 2:04.97 vs. 2:07.39 1.9%
13. 100br: 1:05.15 vs. 1:07.05 2.8%

Average Improvement = 1.62%
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby swimjunkie » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:02 pm

TheDon wrote:Unless there was a typo, the 200 fly seems to singularly be an event that was not really helped by the suits , at least as indicated by this dataset. Odd, I thought that event would have had experienced one of the biggest effects. Comments?


Sorry - it was a typo. The 2008 selection time was 2:08.93. So that would make it 2:07.21 vs. 2:08.93 1.3%

More data:
Selection Times: 2007 vs. 2008 (% improvement)

1. 500: 5:06.95 vs. 5:06.52 0.14%
2. 100 fly: 58.28 vs. 58.28 0%
3. 1650: 17:45.86 vs. 17:37.28. 0.8%
4. 50: 24.23 vs. 24.14 0.4%
5. 400im: vs. 4:35.41 0.8%
6. 100free: 52.79 vs. 52.64 0.3%
7. 200free: 1:55.22 vs. 1:54.77 0.4%
8. 200fly: 2:08.66 vs. 2:07.39 1.0%
9. 200im: 2:09.44 vs. 2:09.72 (-0.2%)
10. 100back: 58.95 vs. 58.89 0.1%
11. 200br: 2:25.38 vs. 2:25.16 0.2%
12. 200back: 2:08.58 vs. 2:07.39 0.9%
13. 100br: 1:06.83 vs. 1:07.05 (-0.3%)

Average Improvement: 0.35%
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby openwater » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:23 pm

I agree that the number of A-cuts per event vary remarkably. Only 3 cuts in the 100 Fly and 6 for the 200 Fly and the 200 IM. And 18 A-cuts in the 100 Breast - this latter makes sense as the flotation of the Boo 70's should help keep a good body position for this stroke. (But it hasn't helped the 200 Breast so ....)
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby Low Tide » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:44 pm

swimjunkie wrote:
TheDon wrote:Unless there was a typo, the 200 fly seems to singularly be an event that was not really helped by the suits , at least as indicated by this dataset. Odd, I thought that event would have had experienced one of the biggest effects. Comments?


Sorry - it was a typo. The 2008 selection time was 2:08.93. So that would make it 2:07.21 vs. 2:08.93 1.3%

More data:
Selection Times: 2007 vs. 2008 (% improvement)

1. 500: 5:06.95 vs. 5:06.52 0.14%
2. 100 fly: 58.28 vs. 58.28 0%
3. 1650: 17:45.86 vs. 17:37.28. 0.8%
4. 50: 24.23 vs. 24.14 0.4%
5. 400im: vs. 4:35.41 0.8%
6. 100free: 52.79 vs. 52.64 0.3%
7. 200free: 1:55.22 vs. 1:54.77 0.4%
8. 200fly: 2:08.66 vs. 2:07.39 1.0%
9. 200im: 2:09.44 vs. 2:09.72 (-0.2%)
10. 100back: 58.95 vs. 58.89 0.1%
11. 200br: 2:25.38 vs. 2:25.16 0.2%
12. 200back: 2:08.58 vs. 2:07.39 0.9%
13. 100br: 1:06.83 vs. 1:07.05 (-0.3%)

Average Improvement: 0.35%

Thanks!

So, with the corrected typo, our improvement this year jumps up to 1.71% -- Again, that will be slightly lower once true selection times are known.
If we accept an improvement of .35% is "typical" we get a 1.36% improvement that can be largely attributed to the suit.
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby openwater » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:08 am

N Dynamite wrote:....As for line 19, I took out fourth (and fifth) events for people based on ranking and likelihood of swimming the event (I tried to stay away from back to back). Of course, now that I'm thinking about it, when I did that I was using the three day format, so I probably didn't scratch people from appropriate events. Still, in some events, line 19 was actually the 21st or 22nd person on the list


I re-ran my numbers and am in basic agreement with ND - after removing likely (what the hell do I know) 4th and 5th swims (16 total swims) and filling those events with the next fastest times I come to 147 swimmers through line 19. I need to drop one from row 19, ND needs to add one from row 20 - pretty good agreement I think.

So with these 146 swimmers in the meet, you can figure out the relays. Taking the top 10 relays across all 5 gives 63 relay only swimmers out of the 64 cap. Three row 11 relays already have all their swimmers in the meet by this point. Stevens Point needs 2 relay slots to get their row 11 2-Free relay in, WashU needs one slot to get their 800 in - but only if Kono has gotten in the meet with her 22-seed in the mile by having others in front of her scratch their 4th and 5th events.

So it looks like 10 rows of relays - avoiding the embarrassment of having 10 A-cut 2 medley relays and not being able to invite 10 of each of the others.

Now if the NCAA decides to raise the cap by say 10% for individuals and relays ......
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby mwgdc » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:52 pm

Sorry to be the new guy asking the questions, but I am very interested in the NCAA seeding. Is there a central place that you guys are seeing these "rows" ? I don't quite understand the process. I did read the reply about how they do it, but I don't know where you are looking to see the rows.
Thanks for you help!
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby babwik » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:57 pm

mwgdc wrote:Sorry to be the new guy asking the questions, but I am very interested in the NCAA seeding. Is there a central place that you guys are seeing these "rows" ? I don't quite understand the process. I did read the reply about how they do it, but I don't know where you are looking to see the rows.
Thanks for you help!


On the main page of this site you can go to the top times drag down menu. The community does their best to accurately update and edit the times. On the ncaa page:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=37229

The official POP'ed times are published weekly-ish. The list incorporating last weekend's swims should be up tomorrow, and if any swims flew under this site's radar they would be listed there.
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby openwater » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:01 pm

The final list for women is out. The D3 community did itself proud - apparentl only one missing time in the top 20 - a 16th place time in the 100 Back. We missed a couple of 21-22-23 swims (I only scanned out to about #25. Relays are all correct although NCAA has a much slower 400 Free relay for Denison listed. NCAA has multiple swims listed for Emily Schroeder in an event below line 20 so that event is wrong. GAC hasn't entered Gunderson in the 500, #21 time - that seems like an error on their part as I am reasonably sure she plans to swim that. Nicholson's 200 breast is also missing on the NCAA list.
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby TheDon » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:13 pm

The approved D3 last chance meet at Swarthmore for Feb. 28 states it as being for both M & W. If so, this is not the final list for women, just the most up-to-date one.
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby openwater » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:03 pm

Right - it is however the last list that the NCAA will distribute before the invite list goes out.
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby PioneerSwimming » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:28 pm

Some of the midwest schools are going to Purdue: host of the Big Ten meet and site of an all-divisions (per NCAA rule) Last Chance Qualifier, on Sunday. I have heard of Chicago, Depauw, and a few others going. I think there are also LCQ's at Indiana, Maryland (coinciding with ACC's, as heats between sessions), Georgia, Minnesota, Chapel Hill, Missouri (Big XII), Federal Way and UT Knoxville. All of those pools are blazing fast, and having D-I swimmers in the heats will bring the quality of TT's up.
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby mwgdc » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:15 pm

Where is the list located? A link would be great. Thanks to everyone
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby openwater » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:24 pm

Pioneerswimming says that D3 swimmers can swim at D1 'last chance' meets - I don't know where that is written but in case it is true, below are the approved meets before the end of 3/1/09:

For D3 the only one listed is Swartmore on the 28th.

For D2 it is Minnesota Moorhead on the 28th.

For D1, before the absolute D3 deadline of through 3/1/09 we have:

Florida Swimming Spring Senior Championship
February 26-March 1, 2009
Orlando, Florida, Florida Swimming, host
Meet director: Gregg Troy, greggt@gators.uaa.ufl.edu, or Florida swimming office 352/242-5145

2009 Terrapin Invitational Last Chance Meet
February 27-28, 2009
College Park, Maryland, University of Maryland, host
Meet director: Carrie Tupper, 301/226-4455, ctupper@umd.edu

Indiana University Open Women and Men
February 28, 2009
Bloomington, Indiana, Indiana University, host
Meet director: Christy DuBois, 812/855-7051 or 812/855-4935, chdubois@indiana.edu

Bulldog Invitational Last Chance Meet
February 28-March 1, 2009
Athens Georgia, University of Georgia, host
Meet director: Christie Purks, 706/542-7848, cpurks@sports.uga.edu

University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
February 28-March 1, 2009
Chapel Hill, North Carolina, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, host
Meet director: Mike Litzinger, mlitzinger@uncaa.unc.edu

2009 Championship Qualifier Meet
February 28-March 1, 2009
Knoxville, Tennessee, University of Tennessee, Knoxville
Meet director: Rick Starrat, rstarrat@utk.edu

Gopher-It Invitational
March 1, 2009
Minneapolis, Minnesota, University of Minnesota, Twin Cities, host
Meet director: Duane Proell, 612/626-1352, proel001@umn.edu

University of Missouri
March 1, 2009
Columbia, Missouri, University of Missouri, Columbia, host
Meet director: Betsy Rohe, roheb@missouri.edu

2009 Pac-10 Invitational
March 1, 2009
Federal Way, Washington, University of Washington, host
Meet director: Karen Baebler, kflor@u.washington.edu

Boiler-Make-It (men’s and women’s meet)
March 1, 2009
West Lafayette, Indiana, Purdue University, host
Meet director: David Fraseur, 765/496-1346, fraseur@purdue.edu
2009 All-
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby PioneerSwimming » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:32 pm

It is true. I don't know exactly where the rule is posted, and got lazy looking for it, but a D-III team may go to a D-I or D-II meet.

All of the meets listed are close to some teams that could be looking for last chances, including Federal Way (Puget Sound). West Lafayette, IN, is close to Chicago and to Depauw, and IU could be close to Ohio Colleges (if they want to go), etc etc etc: there is a good geographic distribution of these meets. Hopkins men are already up in Cambridge, MA, for ECAC's, which is actually a true conference meet. ECAC can also serve as a Last Chance Meet because almost every school east of the Ohio River and KY, and north of Richmond, VA, is already a member of the ECAC, and has membership and entry privileges in the meet.
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Re: Selection Row for Invites

Postby My Spoon's Too Big! » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:48 pm

I've collected all the top times, taken swimmers out of fourth/fifth events, guessed what events those few swimmers who have options will swim, and eliminated 5 Kenyon women from the meet since they've qualified 23. Here's what I have in terms of invite times:

50 Free 23.74
100 Free 52.01 (19th row)
200 Free 1:53.07
500 Free 5:00.72
1650 Free 17:23.93 (19th row)
100 Back 57.68
200 Back 2:04.97
100 Breast 1:04.86
200 Breast 2:22.64
100 Fly 57.31
200 Fly 2:06.78
200 IM 2:07.63
400 IM 4:32.37 (19th row)

The other four 19th row swimmers that I have who are not already in are, in order:
200 Free Novinger, Denison (she's in with the relays)
100 Back McKay, William Paterson
100 Breast Brooks, Catholic
200 Breast Barone, Denison

200 MR 1:45.70 (11th)
400 MR 3:51.45 (11th)
200 FR 1:35.65 (11th)
400 FR 3:29.62 (11th)
800 FR 7:38.14 (10th)

As of now, I have Wash U's 800 Free Relay as the 11th row furthest from Meet Record time. There are six relay-only spots in the 11th row, all of which are taken up by the other 11th-row teams. If Novinger goes individually, that frees up one relay-only spot, but WU needs two.
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