2014 NCAA Qual Times

What do you predict for nationals? Who is going to shine, who is not?

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watercows
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2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by watercows » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:02 am

http://www.collegeswimming.com/news/201 ... s-updated/

I assume the men's 2back "A" cut (1:45.96) is a typo.

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Re: 2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by mdswimparent » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:14 am

It looks like there are a lot to typos. For many of the events, last year would have produced one or less A times, at least for the men. (i.e, 100 back and 200 IM no A qualifers using last years best times). I didn't check the women's times. Hopefully last years 200 fly situation did not lead to such massive time drops.

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Re: 2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by a dude » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:33 am

mdswimparent wrote:It looks like there are a lot to typos. For many of the events, last year would have produced one or less A times, at least for the men. (i.e, 100 back and 200 IM no A qualifers using last years best times). I didn't check the women's times. Hopefully last years 200 fly situation did not lead to such massive time drops.
I believe they changed the formula for the A standards to an average of the winning times from the past three years. They are not typos.

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Re: 2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by watercows » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:53 am

a dude wrote: I believe they changed the formula for the A standards to an average of the winning times from the past three years. They are not typos.
If the NCAA did, in fact, alter the formula for "A" cuts (in the manner that "a dude" describes), this, combined with the elimination of "A" cuts for relays, changes the landscape a bit. While the NCAA cut line will be far "smoother" across events (no more men's 1fly fiascoes that distorted the cut lines for other men's events in 2013), far fewer swimmers (if any, in some/many events) will know their fates until after the final conference/last-chance meets. Also, the new (and, frankly, unrealistic) "A" cut formula renders the drop-taper, pre-X-mas "qual" meets functionally irrelevant.

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Re: 2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by mdswimparent » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:08 am

I only checked the men's baskstrokes, but the new A cut is the average of the last 3 winning times. That produces a standard that over the last 3 years there would have been only 1 A cut made in the 1 back (the 2011 NCAA winner). Best I can tell, there were no in season swims that made the cut during that period. In the 2 back only 2 swimmers would have made the new A cut over the last 3 years (both from the 2013 NCAA meet). Again, it looks like there were no regular season swims that would have made the new A cut in that 3 year period. Maybe it is only the backs that so severely affected, but the new cuts are based on huge reductions.

What would be the rationale for that? Is it just a reaction to the 1 fly from last year?

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Re: 2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by Scooter87 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:42 pm

The rationale is to make sure deserving kids are not left at home. Now that 16 relays are invited there were a lot of "relay only" swimmers at the meet, leaving some kids who would get top-16 in say the 100 breast scratching their heads at home. With the new formula it should help that. There is also a provision where if the cap has been hit early they will only take 15 relays, 14 relays, etc....until it works out.

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Re: 2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by mdswimparent » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:44 pm

In addition to the men's back I commented on earlier, I just made a rough cut based on last year's NCAA Meet results (assuming no time drops this year) then compared those 2013 championship times to the 2014 A Cuts:

50 Fr- 1 A cut
100 Fr - 2 A cuts
200 Fr - 1 A cut
500 Fr- 0 A cuts
1650 Fr - 0 A cuts
100 Br - 0 A cuts
200 Br - 0 A cuts
100 Fl - 1 A cut
200 Fl - 0 A cuts
200 IM - 1 A cut
400 IM - 1 A cut

Does the NCAA really expect to produce less than 10 A cuts from all the individual events? I recognize some of the returning swimmers will be faster next year, but when during the season will they be at the same taper they were at the NCAA meet last year?

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Re: 2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by mdswimparent » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:48 pm

Scooter87 wrote:The rationale is to make sure deserving kids are not left at home. Now that 16 relays are invited there were a lot of "relay only" swimmers at the meet, leaving some kids who would get top-16 in say the 100 breast scratching their heads at home. With the new formula it should help that. There is also a provision where if the cap has been hit early they will only take 15 relays, 14 relays, etc....until it works out.
For the individual events, that rationale would suggest doing away with A/B cuts altogether and just saying the fastest 16 swimmers make the meet.

That would produce a max of 208 swimmers (reduced by multiple event qualifiers) and the balance of the overall meet cap could/would be relay only swimmers. Is that the way it is intended to work?

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Re: 2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by John Stamos » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:36 pm

It feels like the NCAA is trying to phase out the idea of an A cut. Scrapping A cuts from relays and making the individual mark difficult enough so that very few actually achieve it seems to be pointing in that direction. I wouldn't mind if they did that and just let the Top 16 automatically in to each event, and then still had some sort of time standard that a swimmer had to meet in order to participate in bonus events. This would let the fastest swimmers in while cleaning up the bottom of some events (i.e. a 23 second 50 freestyler or 2:00+ IM).
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Re: 2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by imJumbo » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:25 pm

The cuts, especially on the women's, are not too terribly far away from the D1 cuts. The men are still quite a ways away, but it really shows how D3 has gotten exceptionally fast the past few years, and is quickly catching the big boys and girls.

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Re: 2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by sbswim » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:47 pm

I really dont think having the A-cuts being so fast makes too much of a difference on mid season taper plans. Most top coaches know what times will for sure make the meet and this is especially so for relays. If you can go 1:30. in the 2 Medley mid season I dont think you have to worry about it. Kenyon, Dennison, JHU, Emory, and MIT (among others) are all capable of going fast enough in relays mid season to guarantee people making it still if they want. Which means those people just need B cuts.

I dont think this changes anything as far as mid season tapering.

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Re: 2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by ScotsFan » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:19 pm

John Stamos wrote:It feels like the NCAA is trying to phase out the idea of an A cut. Scrapping A cuts from relays and making the individual mark difficult enough so that very few actually achieve it seems to be pointing in that direction. I wouldn't mind if they did that and just let the Top 16 automatically in to each event...
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Re: 2014 NCAA Qual Times

Post by Truthinswmng » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:37 pm

Scooter87 wrote:The rationale is to make sure deserving kids are not left at home. Now that 16 relays are invited there were a lot of "relay only" swimmers at the meet, leaving some kids who would get top-16 in say the 100 breast scratching their heads at home. With the new formula it should help that. There is also a provision where if the cap has been hit early they will only take 15 relays, 14 relays, etc....until it works out.
Can someone provide a link to or text from this "provision"?

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