Qualifying rules

What do you predict for nationals? Who is going to shine, who is not?

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Just Ducky
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by Just Ducky » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:49 am

DDiNardo wrote: TOTAL = 56 Individual Women's Cap is 146. I am sure some of these kids have more than 1 A cut, so the actual number is lower.
can you put names to all those A cut swimmers, and can you do the same on the men's side

BigRed Parent
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by BigRed Parent » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:59 am

I don't have time to do that, but you can look it up on the USA Swimming Web Site. Just go to the "Times" Section and there is an NCAA link. Pick D3 and then run a Top Times Report. I'd suggest limiting it to 25 since all you want are A Cuts in each event.

This link may work http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefau ... ow&Lang=en

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nescac
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by nescac » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:11 am

Don't know if that includes 2 A cuts last night in 200 breast for women at Empire 8. The A cuts are likely to have no influence on cap because they nearly always are on a qualifying relay anyway (except when Emory deliberately holds them off relays to qualify other swimmers.). The stress on the cap comes from relay only swimmers who don't make top 16 in an individual event but nonetheless get invited.

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Truthinswmng
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by Truthinswmng » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:34 am

On the women's side, Emory does not hold swimmers out of their relays. Their problem is not trying to get more swimmers in, it's dealing with having 23 or 24 swimmers who would get invited but for the 18 member squad limit, and deciding who gets on the national squad submitted to the NCAA.

nescac
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by nescac » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:54 am

Sorry for the misstatement. Some of Emory's A swimmers are not listed on relays for whatever reason.

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N Dynamite
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by N Dynamite » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:03 pm

ScotsFan wrote:Hypothetical question:

Say there are no A cuts in the 500 free. Swimmer X has the fastest B cut time in the nation. Swimmer X has no other B cuts. Swimmer X swims on 800 free relay, and his relay puts up the second fastest time on the Sweet 16 list. Swimmer X will get to imvited to the meet and can swim the 500 because he's relay-qualified and has a B cut in that event. But does X get to swim any other two events of his choice? In other words, is he invited as a relay swimmer or as an individual swimmer, in a situation where there is no doubt he would have received an individual invitation as a B-cut swimmer had he not swum the relay?
Although relays are entered into the meet before individual B cuts, if your time is faster than the invited time in an individual event you're considered invited as an individual - it's a weird situation where relays are selected first, but the individual event takes priority in how you're invited. So in your example, the 500 swimmer would be invited as an individual and would be able to swim up to three individual events - but must swim the 500 since that's how they got invited to the meet.
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enlightened
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by enlightened » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:39 pm

So let's see if I'm understanding this correctly. You can be the 15th ranked swimmer in a particular event (let's say the 100 free) and not get invited to the meet, only to have 50 swimmers (16 relay teams x 4 swimmers = 64 swimmers minus 14 = 50) ranked below you invited to the meet? If true, this is insanity.

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nescac
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by nescac » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:38 pm

Only if they have B cuts. That is usually another 20 to 30 swimmers. And some of those swimmers will have qualified as individuals in another event. But, yes, if you are a freestyler, then you should try to swim on a team with a potentially qualifying relay.

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N Dynamite
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by N Dynamite » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:46 pm

Conversely, you could be the 20th best in the 100 free but 6 people ahead of you don't swim it - the only reason they're ahead of you is because they led off the 400 relay and are going to swim the events they're better at. So you get invited to the meet as the 14th person. Insane that you could score and not truly be top 16 in that event because better people swam something else...
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BigRed Parent
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by BigRed Parent » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:47 pm

N Dynamite wrote:Conversely, you could be the 20th best in the 100 free but 6 people ahead of you don't swim it - the only reason they're ahead of you is because they led off the 400 relay and are going to swim the events they're better at. So you get invited to the meet as the 14th person. Insane that you could score and not truly be top 16 in that event because better people swam something else...
NDynamite, you're correct but I think you have to distinguish between a person who has 3+ strong events and opts not to swim in the 200 Free even though they have a Top 20 time, as opposed to someone that's in the Top 20 and doesn't get in to the Meet because a Relay Swimmer who is slower in that Individual event (in this case 200 FR) takes a slot in the overall Cap.

I guess we have to stop beating this dead horse. The rules are in place and the teams/coaches/parents/fans all have to deal with them. Entries are due tomorrow evening. I'm sure there are some coaches who are pouring over the USS Database trying to figure out how to get their B Cut kids who aren't on a Top 16 Relay into the Meet. Psych Sheets are to be posted Thursday, March 1st.

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sbswim
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by sbswim » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:09 pm

I have the guys meet going through 16 complete lines for the individual events with some assumptions for guys in multiple events. This could change slightly either way based on scratches and actual entries...

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N Dynamite
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by N Dynamite » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:14 pm

DDiNardo wrote:I guess we have to stop beating this dead horse. The rules are in place and the teams/coaches/parents/fans all have to deal with them. Entries are due tomorrow evening. I'm sure there are some coaches who are pouring over the USS Database trying to figure out how to get their B Cut kids who aren't on a Top 16 Relay into the Meet. Psych Sheets are to be posted Thursday, March 1st.
Agreed. I just want to close by saying, when you look at how tight the relay selection is, how do you distinguish between what's more important to the meet. Clearly we are looking at this through different lenses - you (and some others) believe it's about the individuals. I feel it's about the team. It's an NCAA team championship - no one would complain that the 30th best shooting guard is watching the first round of March Madness from his couch, regardless of division. No one would complain that the 10th best quarterback in Division III missed the playoffs because the rest of his team wasn't very good. We're just so conditioned in this sport to focus on individual times that we lose sight of what the NCAA is contesting - a team championship where they also happen to recognize individual achievement.
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enlightened
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by enlightened » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:27 pm

After reading the arguments on both sides it is my strong belief that relay teams are disproportionately rewarded by the current system. Just as records are made to be broken, rules are able to be changed.

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Swmr46
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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by Swmr46 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:46 pm

enlightened wrote:After reading the arguments on both sides it is my strong belief that relay teams are disproportionately rewarded by the current system. Just as records are made to be broken, rules are able to be changed.

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The rule won't changed, get use to the new system.

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Re: Qualifying rules

Post by Negrodamus » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:04 am

Swmr46 wrote: The rule won't change, get used to the new system.
There ya go
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