Qualifying rules

What do you predict for nationals? Who is going to shine, who is not?

Moderators: Diesel471, ThePlowman, Nasty Natti

Post Reply
nescac
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:02 am
Team Affiliation: nescac

Qualifying rules

Post by nescac » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:41 am

Could someone post link to rules for qualifying and remind us how many qualified in each event last year? (I follow women so I'd appreciate info on women from last year.). Because Williams and Emory seem to have not tapered many swimmers this year, I wonder if the cut line will be a bit slower this year. I know that's historically unlikely but it looks like lots of teams are going the relay with B cut route rather than pushing for A times. I don't see many A times for women this year.

[ Post made via iPad ]

imJumbo
Moderator
Posts: 539
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:14 am
Team Affiliation: Tufts University

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by imJumbo » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:33 pm

The top 16 relays in each event are invited to the meet. Following that, individual swimmers are added line by line until the cap of the total number of swimmers at the meet is met. That's pretty much it. Some of the reason we dont see a ton of monster swims coming from the big guns is because they will make it in easily on the relay, and thus don't need to rest for their individual's of they have B cuts already (see the Williams women 8 free relay as an example).

[ Post made via iPhone ]

nescac
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:02 am
Team Affiliation: nescac

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by nescac » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:49 pm

I was looking at one individual freestyle event (for women) and it seems pretty clear that the top 28 finishers will all qualify on relays. With three freestyle relays and most top times from top teams, I guess that's no great surprise. Assuming the meet cap isn't reached with just the relay swimmers, does that mean that person number 29 gets invited? (That would seem odd.) If person 29 doesn't get invited, then I'm wondering how they will say what the "cut time" is next year?

openwater
Posts: 740
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:17 pm
Location: Over the River

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by openwater » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:18 pm

nescac wrote:I was looking at one individual freestyle event (for women) and it seems pretty clear that the top 28 finishers will all qualify on relays. With three freestyle relays and most top times from top teams, I guess that's no great surprise. Assuming the meet cap isn't reached with just the relay swimmers, does that mean that person number 29 gets invited? (That would seem odd.) If person 29 doesn't get invited, then I'm wondering how they will say what the "cut time" is next year?
But these 28 swimmers all have different times in the 100Free so roughly the fastest 20 will get in because of their relay but would also have gotten in by the individual route - it is just that they won't count against the individual cap because of their relay. There will still be a last 100 freestyler in and that time will factor into setting next year's cut time.
Once a competitive swimmer, you can become anything.

User avatar
N Dynamite
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:44 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by N Dynamite » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:30 pm

Think of it like building a brick wall. There are already a bunch of bricks lying around because of the relays (and those count toward the overall cap), but you have to use the bricks in order when building the wall. The bottom row first (top seed in all events), then the next complete row of bricks (2nd seed), etc. When a brick from a row isn't laying in the relay pile you go get it from your inventory and it counts toward the overall cap. Eventually you'll reach a row on your wall where the sum of the bricks in the wall and extra relay bricks that haven't been put on the wall equals the cap - you're no longer permitted to get any new bricks. The row where that happens is your invite time. Now take all those extra relay bricks and stack them on top of the wall. Their part of the count, but don't affect the invite time. It's highly unlikely #29 gets in unless the wall gets 29 rows tall.
You have Pedro's protection. Vote for Pedro.

BYoung001
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:05 am
Team Affiliation: UChicago

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by BYoung001 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:36 pm

The cut lines are applied evenly by each event. So, number 28 100 freestyler wont make the meet individually unless number 27 1650 freestyler makes the meet.


I don't know if these were mentioned...

If you make the meet individually, you may swim 3 individual events regardless of time.
If you make the meet in a relay, you may swim in events in which you have B cuts.
If you make the meet in a relay you MUST swim in that relay.

BYoung001
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:05 am
Team Affiliation: UChicago

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by BYoung001 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:39 pm

Also, last years line was close to 11 I believe... so unless they added cap numbers, don't get your hopes up @ #20.

openwater
Posts: 740
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:17 pm
Location: Over the River

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by openwater » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:26 pm

BYoung001 wrote:Also, last years line was close to 11 I believe... so unless they added cap numbers, don't get your hopes up @ #20.
The line for the men in 2011 was 15, the line for the women was 18. I overstated at #20 - probably.
Once a competitive swimmer, you can become anything.

BYoung001
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:05 am
Team Affiliation: UChicago

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by BYoung001 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:30 pm

my mistake... there was fear last year that the cut would be in the 11-13 range... luckily it wasn't so bad. Either way, you shouldn't get All American Hon Mention recognition when #16 is sitting at home.

nescac
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:02 am
Team Affiliation: nescac

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by nescac » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:47 pm

What's the overall cap for men and women?

Swmr46
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:18 pm

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by Swmr46 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:47 pm

BYoung001 wrote:my mistake... there was fear last year that the cut would be in the 11-13 range... luckily it wasn't so bad. Either way, you shouldn't get All American Hon Mention recognition when #16 is sitting at home.
There are a lot of people on this forum that are part of the old system of qualifying. There were years on the men side when they took 9 relays across the board. That left 7 relays home, that almost the whole consolation heat at Nationals. What would you rather have 7 relays left home or one individual? It is not a perfect system but the new qualifying rules are way better than the old system. Also, we are in a way better situation than Division 2 right now too....

sbswim
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:43 pm
Team Affiliation: MIT

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by sbswim » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:56 pm

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/93f ... f414ac0d18

Number of Participants. The number of participants in the 2012 championships cannot exceed the following limits:
Men—257; and Women—264.
Action of Participants.
Step 1: All individual swimmers and all relays that have achieved “A” time standards will
be entered in the meet.
Step 2: The top16 qualifying relay teams in each relay event and 22 divers will be
selected.
Step 3: Entries will be added to each individual swimming event, filling across rows
until each event has an equal number of qualifiers. Individual spaces will be
filled by comparing student-athlete’s individual event times to the Division III
championships record by percentage.
Step 4: The competitor whose percentage is closest to the record will be taken first
until 140 men and 146 women individual event qualifiers are selected or the
maximum participant number is reached.
Step 5: Relay-only swimmers will be added to only those individual events for which
they have met the “B” time standard.
Step 6: At this point, if the maximum participant cap has not been reached, studentathletes will be selected in the following order:
1 diver
2 individual event swimmers
1 diver
2 individual event swimmers
1 diver (maximum cap for divers is 25)
Any remaining participant cap space will be filled by individual event swimmers.
In the rare instances of a tie for the last entry to the championships, both
individuals will be allowed to participate in the championships.
Step 7: After the selection process is completed and the qualifiers are selected into the
championships, the optional entries will be added for the individual qualifiers.
Step 8: No team may have more than 18 competitors.

pops
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:24 am
Team Affiliation: Denison

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by pops » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:44 pm

One more question - how do non qualifying relays work?

Is it if you have 4 guys in the meet who can make a B time you can swim it?
Is it 4 individual qualifiers or can relay only guys count?
And do you need the B time to swim it?

Thanks

User avatar
N Dynamite
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:44 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by N Dynamite » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:25 pm

If you have four non-divers at the meet (doesn't matter how they got there) you can field as many relays as you want
You have Pedro's protection. Vote for Pedro.

openwater
Posts: 740
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:17 pm
Location: Over the River

Re: Qualifying rules

Post by openwater » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:34 pm

N Dynamite wrote:If you have four non-divers at the meet (doesn't matter how they got there) you can field as many relays as you want
With an individual limit of 7 total swims.
Once a competitive swimmer, you can become anything.

Post Reply