January

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Re: January

Postby RetiredJet » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:10 am

Borg wrote:If already discussed then apologies....
Scanning through the NESCAC Championship schedules for both women and men I noticed that morning preliminary relays have been completely eliminated from the competitions.
No more morning relay DQs ....which should please the coaches
Top swimmers from not-so-deep teams, Sarier and Bedard come to mind, likely benefit the most by not having to swim these morning relays. But...fewer opportunities to shake the rust off and dial it in for evening finals.
4 days, fewer relays.......fresher swimmers? faster times? more NCAA qualifiers?


Wow that would be huge for every team. Top 3 teams might not get an opportunity to see who their fastest guys so you might see some crazy fast B relay splits. For everyone else I see this as a big benefit since it'll allow teams to rest their best guys more without worry about making A final. My one question here is, does this mean that relays will run like the distance events? Seeded based on best season time and scored fastest to slowest (i.e. even if you were one of those 3 relays in the slower A you could still score out of it?).

But overall I agree with Borg I think we will see a lot of fast splits/relays since guys will be swimming less and they will get more rest between sessions because there are no relays and breaks after relays now.
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Re: January

Postby Borg » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:06 am

RetiredJet wrote:
Borg wrote:If already discussed then apologies....
Scanning through the NESCAC Championship schedules for both women and men I noticed that morning preliminary relays have been completely eliminated from the competitions.
No more morning relay DQs ....which should please the coaches
Top swimmers from not-so-deep teams, Sarier and Bedard come to mind, likely benefit the most by not having to swim these morning relays. But...fewer opportunities to shake the rust off and dial it in for evening finals.
4 days, fewer relays.......fresher swimmers? faster times? more NCAA qualifiers?


Wow that would be huge for every team. Top 3 teams might not get an opportunity to see who their fastest guys so you might see some crazy fast B relay splits. For everyone else I see this as a big benefit since it'll allow teams to rest their best guys more without worry about making A final. My one question here is, does this mean that relays will run like the distance events? Seeded based on best season time and scored fastest to slowest (i.e. even if you were one of those 3 relays in the slower A you could still score out of it?).

But overall I agree with Borg I think we will see a lot of fast splits/relays since guys will be swimming less and they will get more rest between sessions because there are no relays and breaks after relays now.


Another question:
Will NESCAC include "C" relays during any of these "finals only" evening relays?
If my memory serves me, the Sunday night "finals only" 400 Free relay has never included "C" relays.
If so, then a significant number of swimmers will no longer get relay participation opportunities.
NESCAC veering away from certain core values?
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Re: January

Postby One&Done » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:42 am

Exciting to see the NESCAC talk building, but more immediately, for the Middlebury Invite this weekend...will this be Middlebury, Tufts, and Williams competing like last year? I don't see any evidence that it will be streamed on the northeast sport network (http://www.nsnsports.net) - that's a disappointment. Hoping for some good posts here to capture some of the excitement (thanks in advance!).

It does seem like some of our contributors here would be extremely well positioned to take over calling the meets for nsn: often the announcer does not know what I.M. stands for or whether the races are in yards or meters...
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Re: January

Postby RetiredJet » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:52 am

I know it's February but still some non-NESCAC meets left and i'll post about them here and create a new thread for the NESCAC meets later:

Williams and Middlebury @Midd Invite (no Tufts this year looks like they are going to a BU invite meet next weekend)
Amherst vs MIT (2/2) and vs Union (2/3)
Conn vs Wesleyan, Fairfield & Coast Guard (2/1)
Hamilton vs RPI (2/2)
Trinity @ Worchester Tech Sprints (Not sure if this is supposed to be WPI)
Colby vs Bowdoin (2/2)
Bates @WPI invitational (Not sure if this is the same meet at Trinity or not)

A few notes about the meets. 1)Williams has more than 24 men/women so I'm assuming we will see some guys shave and taper for Midd invite. 2)In the past Midd has worn suits (even NESCAC kids) so we should see some good times from them 3)No meet for Tufts this weekend (BU invite is pretty close to women's NESCACs so this probably means the NESCAC teams have been chosen) 4)Quick look at Bates but they also have more than 24 guys so there may be some drops for them at WPI this weekend.

This will most likely be the final tuneup for everyone can't wait to get into championship season!
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Re: January

Postby purpleandwhite » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:31 am

RetiredJet wrote:I know it's February but still some non-NESCAC meets left and i'll post about them here and create a new thread for the NESCAC meets later:

Williams and Middlebury @Midd Invite (no Tufts this year looks like they are going to a BU invite meet next weekend)
Amherst vs MIT (2/2) and vs Union (2/3)
Conn vs Wesleyan, Fairfield & Coast Guard (2/1)
Hamilton vs RPI (2/2)
Trinity @ Worchester Tech Sprints (Not sure if this is supposed to be WPI)
Colby vs Bowdoin (2/2)
Bates @WPI invitational (Not sure if this is the same meet at Trinity or not)

A few notes about the meets. 1)Williams has more than 24 men/women so I'm assuming we will see some guys shave and taper for Midd invite. 2)In the past Midd has worn suits (even NESCAC kids) so we should see some good times from them 3)No meet for Tufts this weekend (BU invite is pretty close to women's NESCACs so this probably means the NESCAC teams have been chosen) 4)Quick look at Bates but they also have more than 24 guys so there may be some drops for them at WPI this weekend.

This will most likely be the final tuneup for everyone can't wait to get into championship season!


It's Amherst versus Springfield College at the iconic Ark Linkletter Natatorium .
I heard there were few guys still on the bubble for Tufts mens so BU might be relevant for a few conference members. Must be tough to have so many choices. Not a bad problem for the team obviously.
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Re: January

Postby polarbear » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:07 pm

purpleandwhite wrote:
swimdad wrote:@purpleandwhite, it’s only a gamble by Kuster if they don’t finish 2nd and or 3rd in their respective events, due to the alternative of 1,2,3 lock in 1000 (Lovette, Karofsky and Trunsky), correct? So as long as they can at least get a 2nd and 3rd, with opportunity to get a win, it is the right strategy, not a gamble. Correct?

[ Post made via iPad ]


That's true if the finish 1 in the 1000, 2 in the 200 and 3 in the 400 IM then its a wash point-wise. So there is upside. The risk is that without the 1/2 Williams guys in the 1000 there's a greater chance they don't win the 1000. In Karofsky case the 400 IM has the additional advantage of providing another event, besides the 500 and 1650 where he can get a B or invite time. Relay only swimmers can only compete individually in events where they have a B time and the 1000 is not an NCAA event.

If you ask me whether its a gamble worth taking then my answer yes.

Re the 800 free relay.....I agree that Williams is the favorite based on past swims AND current swimming. I don't think we'll see any "destroying" of Amherst though despite the zeal of some Ephs fans. The Amherst guys proved to me in the 400 free relay at the dual meet they are up to this task this year.

Sorry Retired Jet.....I still see Tufts as darkhorse in this race. Having 4+ guys who can go 1:40 flat start won't cut it this year given the depth of the event this year and the fact its Thursday night. That doesn't mean the Jumbos don't pull it off its just improbable....just like Amherst defeating Williams in the 400 free this January when Williams goes 1,2 in the 100 free and Amherst is without their number 1 100 free guy. It can happen.


I think we are talking about maybe 5-10 points here. Last year Tufts won by 180 points, the year before Williams won by 270 over Amherst (with Tufts 10 points back). Middlebury won in 2002 by 122 points. The last time the meet came down to anything less than 100 was 1997 when Williams defended in the last relay against Amherst and won by 6 points but with a DQed champion 800 relay. Before that . . . 1962 and 1963 when Bowdoin lost to Williams by 3 points each year?? Someone else may know something better in the interim.

On the relays, I see it hard for any of the Williams relays to drop beyond 3rd. If Tufts won every A and B relay and Williams was 3d in every A and B relay its a 10 point spread for the A and six on the B (64 versus 54 and 26 versus 20) x 5 relays = 80 points. IF they do it in every relay. Possible? yes. Likely? I dont think so -- I might even put Amherst #1 on the medleys with what could be a 54 BR split.
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Re: January

Postby purpleandwhite » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:00 pm

polarbear wrote:
purpleandwhite wrote:
swimdad wrote:@purpleandwhite, it’s only a gamble by Kuster if they don’t finish 2nd and or 3rd in their respective events, due to the alternative of 1,2,3 lock in 1000 (Lovette, Karofsky and Trunsky), correct? So as long as they can at least get a 2nd and 3rd, with opportunity to get a win, it is the right strategy, not a gamble. Correct?

[ Post made via iPad ]


That's true if the finish 1 in the 1000, 2 in the 200 and 3 in the 400 IM then its a wash point-wise. So there is upside. The risk is that without the 1/2 Williams guys in the 1000 there's a greater chance they don't win the 1000. In Karofsky case the 400 IM has the additional advantage of providing another event, besides the 500 and 1650 where he can get a B or invite time. Relay only swimmers can only compete individually in events where they have a B time and the 1000 is not an NCAA event.

If you ask me whether its a gamble worth taking then my answer yes.

Re the 800 free relay.....I agree that Williams is the favorite based on past swims AND current swimming. I don't think we'll see any "destroying" of Amherst though despite the zeal of some Ephs fans. The Amherst guys proved to me in the 400 free relay at the dual meet they are up to this task this year.

Sorry Retired Jet.....I still see Tufts as darkhorse in this race. Having 4+ guys who can go 1:40 flat start won't cut it this year given the depth of the event this year and the fact its Thursday night. That doesn't mean the Jumbos don't pull it off its just improbable....just like Amherst defeating Williams in the 400 free this January when Williams goes 1,2 in the 100 free and Amherst is without their number 1 100 free guy. It can happen.


I think we are talking about maybe 5-10 points here. Last year Tufts won by 180 points, the year before Williams won by 270 over Amherst (with Tufts 10 points back). Middlebury won in 2002 by 122 points. The last time the meet came down to anything less than 100 was 1997 when Williams defended in the last relay against Amherst and won by 6 points but with a DQed champion 800 relay. Before that . . . 1962 and 1963 when Bowdoin lost to Williams by 3 points each year?? Someone else may know something better in the interim.

On the relays, I see it hard for any of the Williams relays to drop beyond 3rd. If Tufts won every A and B relay and Williams was 3d in every A and B relay its a 10 point spread for the A and six on the B (64 versus 54 and 26 versus 20) x 5 relays = 80 points. IF they do it in every relay. Possible? yes. Likely? I dont think so -- I might even put Amherst #1 on the medleys with what could be a 54 BR split.


I think this will be a very close contest so all of those relay points will be precious. I will refrain from making my Men's predictions until the Women's meet is over. It's not that I think the Women's meet will give us any insight into the Men's taper it's just bad form, like putting up X Mas decorations before the day after Thanksgiving.
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