NESCAC Weekend 2

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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby polarbear » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:58 am

oh, almost forgot -- Colby men look much improved.
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby purpleandwhite » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:04 am

EphFan123 wrote:Honestly, aside from Gu and Joseph Kim Tufts did not look good this weekend at all. I’m sure we’ll hear kk the excuses about 2 days rest etc but if they were wearing suits and had no rest I’d expect to see better times.
Of note this weekend from Williams, freshman Aaron Stanton goes 47.1 in the 100 free. Will Zhang splits 20.9. Melnick splits 26.1. Lee splits 22.8. Karofsky 9:37 in the 1000 and 4:42 in the 500. Pearcy 51.4 in the 100 fly. Lovette 1:42 200 free.

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Have to disagree. They look well-positioned to defend their title. Last year they had a strong and deep team and their freshman look lights out. I ignore the slightly better or worse performances of a handful. Every reason to believe their guys will be there when championships arrive. Can't see Williams, who had impressive swims, beating this team.
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby the_GUru » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:35 am

RetiredJet wrote:
EphFan123 wrote:Honestly, aside from Gu and Joseph Kim Tufts did not look good this weekend at all. I’m sure we’ll hear kk the excuses about 2 days rest etc but if they were wearing suits and had no rest I’d expect to see better times.
Of note this weekend from Williams, freshman Aaron Stanton goes 47.1 in the 100 free. Will Zhang splits 20.9. Melnick splits 26.1. Lee splits 22.8. Karofsky 9:37 in the 1000 and 4:42 in the 500. Pearcy 51.4 in the 100 fly. Lovette 1:42 200 free.

[ Post made via iPhone ]


Just want to throw out some context here. Most kids on the team were faster at the meet this year than they were last year. John LaLime went from 16:35->16:14, Tyler Tatro went from 1:43.33->1:42.10 and 47.59->46.85, Nathan Mitchell went 152.89->1:51.05, and John Koster went from 1:57.47 ->1:55.15. My point being almost everyone on the team was faster than they were last year at this meet. Everyone loves to hate on Tufts for their MIT times, whether it be because they rested too much or their times weren’t impressive enough, but fact of the matter is that they have been showing up at NESCACs/NCAA for the last few years now so I think most kids are probably feeling pretty good about their meet.

Also just want to throw out there that the Tufts women swam lights out. They had multiple relays go faster than what it took to make NCAA last year. 800 Free was 7:36.47 and 200 Medley relay was 1:44.72 and given that Tufts hasn’t sent any relays to NCAA in a few years I would say that was very impressive for them. Finally, there were lots of great swims by the Tufts women individually (I would go take a look at Abby Claus, Mary Hufziger, Lily Kurtz, Colleen Doolan, Amy Socha and Sasha Fong’s individual times to start) and I think this will set them up very well at NESCACs this year.


A storm is rising in Medford. Its winds are being felt all throughout Western Mass. Lady 'Bos roll into second by 30 this February in Middletown.
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby imJumbo » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:03 pm

polarbear wrote: Thats the BOWDOIN distance duo . . . .


:shock: my bad
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby JumboWasAwOman » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:29 pm

swimdad wrote:@polarbear, were they suited and rested? If not, great great swims.

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They were suited but no rest - just fire.
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby Borg » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:47 am

EphFan123 wrote:Honestly, aside from Gu and Joseph Kim Tufts did not look good this weekend at all. I’m sure we’ll hear kk the excuses about 2 days rest etc but if they were wearing suits and had no rest I’d expect to see better times.
Of note this weekend from Williams, freshman Aaron Stanton goes 47.1 in the 100 free. Will Zhang splits 20.9. Melnick splits 26.1. Lee splits 22.8. Karofsky 9:37 in the 1000 and 4:42 in the 500. Pearcy 51.4 in the 100 fly. Lovette 1:42 200 free.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Attack Tufts /prop up Williams.
I expected a more conciliatory posture from the 2nd rung of the podium.
Purple Cows showing their true stripes?
:twisted:
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby EphFan123 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:05 am

I gave credit where I thought credit was due...

I'm just not sure why everyone is acting like these swims were insane. I'm seeing two legitimately good frosh, and a bunch of people who swam times (with suits and rest!) that are equal too what others are doing unsuited and unrested elsewhere in the NESCAC. I'm not going to be impressed just because some of the times were slightly faster than last year. Let's see what happens in February.
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby EphFan123 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:22 am

Plus I'm the EPH fan. I don't know what you expected :D . I realize my boys are the underdogs this year, but I still believe in giving credit where credit was due. Kim and Tingen were fast. Bowen and Gu, of course, were very fast. Nothing else blew me away. I was impressed by Bedard at Bates this weekend. I was impressed by just how consistently Amherst has guys split and flat start 46s (in speedos, not in suits, although that's apparently note worthy). I thought Komishane looks like the real deal. I was happy with a lot of the Williams swims. I was really impressed with MIT, but that's off topic. I am not impressed with Tuft's real weakness in breast and fly events. Oh well. I may be wrong again. But I think you all are giving way too much credit.
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby imJumbo » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:19 am

I think it's fair to say that Tufts isn't rock solid from top to bottom in every event, no team is. Clearly they have their strengths in the free, back, and IM. But I would think at this point, over the past few years of doing this 1 day rest/suit thing at MIT, that they deserve the credit for these really fast swims. And I say that because they still show up at NESCACs and swim lights out. If you look at past years, there is ample evidence that Tufts swims the fastest all season at this meet, and yet still crushes their seed times at NESCACs (or for those at the Midd invite, same applies).

Yes, Williams is always fast. And they are a monster team. Their mid-distance freestyle group is the best in the country, and that versatility can anchor a team to huge success. And Amherst is just putting up unbelievably consistent swims across the board. Both of those teams are swimming really well. And the Bowdoin swimmers at the Maine Meet are for real, especially that distance duo joining Sarrier.

We can give credit across the board when its due. And yes, there were other spectacular swims throughout the conference, but all others were saying is that Tufts showed that they have some serious speed and depth this weekend, and its a nice reload after losing a super talented senior class.

Its just 78 days until NESCACs starts.
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby polarbear » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:06 am

imJumbo wrote: If you look at past years, there is ample evidence that Tufts swims the fastest all season at this meet, and yet still crushes their seed times at NESCACs (or for those at the Midd invite, same applies).



Dude, this is exactly what we harp on you for. Remember when I did an analysis of swims last year and showed how most were slower? Or swimswam's analysis that they have the worst drop amongst NESCAC teams?

I saw fewer "outlier" swims this year, and many of the vets were not as fast, which to me implied less rest. I think in the long run they will be better off for it. Ask me in March.
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby polarbear » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:10 am

EphFan123 wrote:Plus I'm the EPH fan. I don't know what you expected :D . I realize my boys are the underdogs this year, but I still believe in giving credit where credit was due. Kim and Tingen were fast. Bowen and Gu, of course, were very fast. Nothing else blew me away. I was impressed by Bedard at Bates this weekend. I was impressed by just how consistently Amherst has guys split and flat start 46s (in speedos, not in suits, although that's apparently note worthy). I thought Komishane looks like the real deal. I was happy with a lot of the Williams swims. I was really impressed with MIT, but that's off topic. I am not impressed with Tuft's real weakness in breast and fly events. Oh well. I may be wrong again. But I think you all are giving way too much credit.


I was thinking about the last part -- who swims fly on the relays this year? If they move Bowen to fly does it mean that their BR leg (relatively their slowest) doesnt have flat water and perhaps makes them slower? I think this year Amherst, Williams, and Tufts will be lightyears ahead of everyone else in the medley relays, and Williams may have the same BR weakness, so points wise and maybe even placing it may not matter at NESCAC's. Put it under "good problems to have."
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby RetiredJet » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:10 pm

polarbear wrote:
EphFan123 wrote:Plus I'm the EPH fan. I don't know what you expected :D . I realize my boys are the underdogs this year, but I still believe in giving credit where credit was due. Kim and Tingen were fast. Bowen and Gu, of course, were very fast. Nothing else blew me away. I was impressed by Bedard at Bates this weekend. I was impressed by just how consistently Amherst has guys split and flat start 46s (in speedos, not in suits, although that's apparently note worthy). I thought Komishane looks like the real deal. I was happy with a lot of the Williams swims. I was really impressed with MIT, but that's off topic. I am not impressed with Tuft's real weakness in breast and fly events. Oh well. I may be wrong again. But I think you all are giving way too much credit.


I was thinking about the last part -- who swims fly on the relays this year? If they move Bowen to fly does it mean that their BR leg (relatively their slowest) doesnt have flat water and perhaps makes them slower? I think this year Amherst, Williams, and Tufts will be lightyears ahead of everyone else in the medley relays, and Williams may have the same BR weakness, so points wise and maybe even placing it may not matter at NESCAC's. Put it under "good problems to have."


Breast is probably the weakest relative leg here although Matt Manfre did throw a 26.1 this past weekend which isn't too far away from his 25.65 at NESCACs last year, so hopefully that is a good sign.
For the back/fly problem I think that Tufts has a few options here. This past weekend freshman Nate Tingen went 23.4/51.1 in the backstrokes. On the one hand you could have Tingen swim back (especially in the 2 medley were only Bowen and Smith have faster returning splits) which would allow for a Bowen-Gu final 100 which would be incredibly hard to hold off imo. On the other hand you could also have Bowen stay on backstroke and throw someone like Costa Camerano (22.7 split at MIT) or JJ Batt (who was a 22.8 split at MIT) swim the fly. Now Bowen did split 21.9 so I think the differences are going to end up being pretty close to each other. It's definitely a good problem to have though.
The other thing to consider is does Tufts mix up their relays such that they can pull more guys to NCAA? There's a lot of things to consider so only time will tell what they end up doing.
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby polarbear » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:33 pm

How fast has Kim been? 1:48 200BK is pretty fast, he should be able to go under 50, right? Tingen best is 23.1 / 50.6
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby imJumbo » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:40 pm

polarbear wrote:How fast has Kim been? 1:48 200BK is pretty fast, he should be able to go under 50, right? Tingen best is 23.1 / 50.6


The 1:48 was a 2 second drop from his best time, which at this meet is a bit wild. But he doesn't appear to be a sprinter, since his 52.2 back was done this weekend and might be at or near his best (or could be a best time). I don't think he's the guy you toss on the 2MR or 4MR.

Tingen going 23.4 this weekend opens up a lot of doors, for sure. Kingsley 22.2/48.2 last year is heads and shoulders above the rest of the field (quite literally), so the calculus will be does he move to fly if there's a suitable back replacement and not a suitable fly substitute? Last year at NCAA's Tufts had 22.0 and 48.8 fly splits, and Kingsley was 22.3/48.3. So that's the math right there.
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Re: NESCAC Weekend 2

Postby Borg » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:28 am

polarbear wrote:
imJumbo wrote:
I saw fewer "outlier" swims this year, and many of the vets were not as fast, which to me implied less rest. I think in the long run they will be better off for it. Ask me in March.

I wonder if the Tufts' coaches are taking a different approach this year if the "less rest" is true.
Last year several Tufts men were tapered at the pre NESCAC Middlebury meet, likely due to the jumbo size and depth of the squad (pun intended), recording times that would have added to their NESCAC championship score. This year......we'll see what kind of depth they have in the next two months...and how these swimmers get deployed.
The hunted rather than the hunter.
What's Tufts male diver situation?
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