NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby polarbear » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:01 pm

Bates removed the supplemental essay requirement: “We have found that the essay is an unnecessary barrier in the path of a talented student who deserves access to an excellent education,” said Weisenburger. Applications were also flat over the last 4 years, with 5,636 in 2014-15 and 5,316 last year.
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby purpleandwhite » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:19 pm

polarbear wrote:
purpleandwhite wrote:Amherst applications were up modestly (5 percent) and the admit rate down slightly (12.8 percent). Average SAT score was 1492 but frankly I've lost track on what that means given the multiple changes to the test.

http://amherststudent.amherst.edu/?q=ar ... class-2022

Tufts increase is applications is also nominal (2 percent) and admission rate is 14.8 percent.

https://tuftsdaily.com/news/2018/04/11/ ... cant-pool/

Middlebury also saw an increase but I believe it to be nominal. Acceptance rate of 18 percent is in line with past years.

I don't follow/have data on the other schools but based on this sampling suspect Bowdoin is an outlier.


Amherst had some pretty bad press in that New York Times article (that frankly I believe applies to most of the NESCAC schools these days). Midd's was even worse -- let's physically attack the professors we don't agree with! Tufts had a front page story in the Globe on their difficulties with alcohol.

Do any of these matter? Who knows. I just find it hard to believe that Bowdoin is doing anything differently than the rest of the league. Yes, the former Dean of Admissions who I will call inconsistent at best (and worse in less polite company) was moved over to Development, maybe that makes a difference. They publicized the fee changes quite a bit and unlike A and W did not quietly scale back their no loan programs during the Great Recession. Applications were also flat / down slightly over the last four years, maybe they are just due.


I think there is "merit" in the just due argument. Some schools become "hot" in ways that I don't fully understand. I saw that Bowdoin appeared ranked "higher" or "just below" some "best liberal arts colleges" rankings so perhaps someone in administration is doing their marketing. At the risk of stating the obvious, it's a great school, one of the nicest campuses in NESCAC, close to Portland and Boston so I'm not surprised the number of people applying is in line with those applying to Williams and Amherst.
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby purpleandwhite » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:23 pm

Borg wrote:
polarbear wrote:
Borg wrote:Slightly off topic but somewhat relevant.....
Spoke with a college advisor yesterday who encourages many of her school's best students to apply to NESCAC schools and this is what she told me:
Applications to NESCAC schools exploded this year with a couple schools seeing a 40+% increase in applications year over year.
Because of this increased level of competitiveness, even the most qualified applicants received far fewer letters of acceptance this year limiting their choices.
The result: the formula for admissions offered/accepted is out of whack and at least one school is significantly oversubscribed.
The counselor also said waiting lists are irrelevant for several schools and non of her many students on a NESCAC waiting lists have heard a peep from any admissions department.
Also heard Bowdoin was challenging Williams in the % accepted category. We'll see about that one.

Anyone hearing similar stories ?


Bowdoin was WAY up this year -- https://bowdoinorient.com/2018/03/30/acceptance-rate-for-class-of-2022-is-lowest-ever/ 10.8% acceptance rate and 25% increase over last year. This was due in part to a new policy that removed the application fee for first generation and minority students. My humble opinion is that this caused a lot of people who fit these categories who MAY have been marginal candidates to apply because they had nothing to lose. As of May 1 they were over-subscribed by about 15 students, right in the normal summer "melt" range to end up with their preferred number of ~500. I would be surprised if they go to the wait list but do not expect them to be majorly oversubscribed.

My view is that they added a bunch of lower level applicants. Not sure what change if any they saw in applicants from people who were truly competitive. I spoke with three coaches this year who said they had to be more . . . disciplined on who they recruited this year. As expected, the NESCAC school that has a lot of overlap with Bowdoin but is generally not the first choice has a very large swim class this year.

I disagree that the application fee waiver is a major contributor to an increased application pool. Colby was free to all applicants this year yet they saw only a 10% increase. Bates charges most applicants and saw a 45% increase in applications. Colby did achieve a 13% acceptance rate which is incredible.
I also disagree that the best NESCAC schools are seeing higher application numbers due to more marginal candidates. The US population is increasing rapidly with more talented college applicants seeking spaces at elite colleges where enrollment levels go unchanged year after year. Factor in the Asian wave, both domestic and international, with academic credentials that match or exceed most US high schoolers. Look at Steyvesant High School in NYC, one of the city's most desired entry exam high schools.....74% Asian. I discussed the Asian wave with a headmaster of an elite boarding school a couple years ago and he told me he could easily fill his school with 100% academically qualified Asian students just from China and Korea without reducing their standards.....and they'd pay full freight.
And just look at the pool decks at NESCACs....at Ivy's, etc. These kids are smart and fast.

I can't speak for every NESCAC schools' financial aid packages but I do know Bowdoin's aid belongs in the best of the best category and no doubt this feature sets Bowdoin apart from most schools. Aid is a huge component when deciding where to apply...IMO....and Bowdoin is incredibly generous. I'd put this factor at the top of the list.


Yes aid is very much a factor and the NESCAC schools are doing a better job of communicating the "net cost" of a liberal arts education. I would not be surprised if applications to Amherst increase due to this news last April:

https://www.amherst.edu/give/news-event ... ymous-gift

Largest unrestricted gift to liberal arts college. Most of that money is going to financial aid and development of new inter-disciplinary STEM majors.
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby polarbear » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:15 pm

But then theres this one . . .

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/us/c ... tions.html

I actually interviewed for a development job at Amherst a few years ago. The person who interviewed me described himself as a "violent Marxist" and was very excited that they had just removed all metrics from the process -- "I'm no longer measured on how many people I met with or much money I raise. Its great!"
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby purpleandwhite » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:00 am

polarbear wrote:But then theres this one . . .

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/us/c ... tions.html

I actually interviewed for a development job at Amherst a few years ago. The person who interviewed me described himself as a "violent Marxist" and was very excited that they had just removed all metrics from the process -- "I'm no longer measured on how many people I met with or much money I raise. Its great!"


Must have been a very effective fundraiser :D
On the other hand, there are a few "non-violent" capitalists on board since they did raise $300 million of the $600 million three months into the current fundraising campaign.
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby polarbear » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:19 pm

purpleandwhite wrote:
polarbear wrote:But then theres this one . . .

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/us/c ... tions.html

I actually interviewed for a development job at Amherst a few years ago. The person who interviewed me described himself as a "violent Marxist" and was very excited that they had just removed all metrics from the process -- "I'm no longer measured on how many people I met with or much money I raise. Its great!"


Must have been a very effective fundraiser :D
On the other hand, there are a few "non-violent" capitalists on board since they did raise $300 million of the $600 million three months into the current fundraising campaign.


This campaign has actually been going on for four years now -- generally you don't announce until you have raised more than 50% of the goal. My very second hand understanding is that they have struggled, and the fact that they only have $300M with a single gift of $100M is pretty telling.

I don't think Amherst is alone in this -- alums are feeling increasingly distanced from Colleges that, say, penalize students for wearing sombreros, or try and argue that their $2B endowments just arent enough when faculty and staff now outweigh the number of students. They are tough sells right now.
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby EphFan123 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:26 pm

As exciting as all this talk of endowments and enrollment percentages is, I'm more excited for the start of long course swimming :D . We're pretty close to getting our first looks at which recruits are poised to drop a lot of time next year.
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby purpleandwhite » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:23 am

polarbear wrote:
purpleandwhite wrote:
polarbear wrote:But then theres this one . . .

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/us/c ... tions.html

I actually interviewed for a development job at Amherst a few years ago. The person who interviewed me described himself as a "violent Marxist" and was very excited that they had just removed all metrics from the process -- "I'm no longer measured on how many people I met with or much money I raise. Its great!"


Must have been a very effective fundraiser :D
On the other hand, there are a few "non-violent" capitalists on board since they did raise $300 million of the $600 million three months into the current fundraising campaign.


This campaign has actually been going on for four years now -- generally you don't announce until you have raised more than 50% of the goal. My very second hand understanding is that they have struggled, and the fact that they only have $300M with a single gift of $100M is pretty telling.

I don't think Amherst is alone in this -- alums are feeling increasingly distanced from Colleges that, say, penalize students for wearing sombreros, or try and argue that their $2B endowments just arent enough when faculty and staff now outweigh the number of students. They are tough sells right now.


The prior campaign "Lives of Consequences" completed four years ago at 502 million 100 million more than the goal and it started around the recession. Is there alumni grumbling from Lord Jeffs about the outlandish PC antics? Sure. But the big supporters of the colleges know that the vast majority of students are there for the same reasons as always. As long as the market stays strong schools like Williams, Amherst, etc will be able to raise lots of money.
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby purpleandwhite » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:27 am

Scott Romeyn Amherst Class of 2022.
20.19 and 44.84
Along with Tom Amsbury, the CA state champion diver, the last two Amherst recruits makes the 2022 class seven strong.
More talent at the top and better team depth for 2018-2019 season.
The dual meet against Williams will be very interesting.
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby RetiredJet » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:50 am

purpleandwhite wrote:Scott Romeyn Amherst Class of 2022.
20.19 and 44.84
Along with Tom Amsbury, the CA state champion diver, the last two Amherst recruits makes the 2022 class seven strong.
More talent at the top and better team depth for 2018-2019 season.
The dual meet against Williams will be very interesting.


That is a huge pickup for Amherst. We have seen the impact Gu has had for Tufts and I would expect this guy to have a similar impact baring any major issues (like an injury). This is also going to give a great boost to Amherst Relays as this will probably allow Koravos to swim fly instead of free which is big gain (Koravos is a 48 100 fly guy so i would assume 22 low split). I think 200 Medley will go to Amherst but 400 will go to Tufts (48/42 splits from Bowen and Gu is a lot to overcome). I also expect Williams to be lurking as Zeb Hart looks like the real deal but they lack a backstroker which may hurt them.
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby EphFan123 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:04 am

I agree that it looks like no one will be able to touch tufts next year in the medleys, but Williams is bringing in 2 49 100 backstrokers, including one faster than Craig smith, so I suspect that they will be in the thick of it if Hart can throw down a 21.low fly leg and Maher and Melnick get back to form.
Undeniably huge pickup for Amherst though that can mitigate the loss of Spiro and Spurrell on the medley.

[ Post made via iPhone ]
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby purpleandwhite » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:29 am

EphFan123 wrote:I agree that it looks like no one will be able to touch tufts next year in the medleys, but Williams is bringing in 2 49 100 backstrokers, including one faster than Craig smith, so I suspect that they will be in the thick of it if Hart can throw down a 21.low fly leg and Maher and Melnick get back to form.
Undeniably huge pickup for Amherst though that can mitigate the loss of Spiro and Spurrell on the medley.

[ Post made via iPhone ]


200 MR Quoinones had second fastest 50 breast split so that should hold up next season. Koravos should be slightly faster than Spurrell. Romeyn a bit faster than Koravos so overall if someone is going to beat Amherst then they will need to faster than last year's time. Regardless, we'll see another new record.

400 MR I'd expect a 3:16 from Amherst as Koravos and Romeyn should be 1.5 seconds faster than last year's swimmers. As you point out having a 43 free anchor in big in this race.

My guess is that Amherst defends its 200 MR title but Tufts repeats in the 400 MR.
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby RetiredJet » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:08 am

purpleandwhite wrote:
EphFan123 wrote:I agree that it looks like no one will be able to touch tufts next year in the medleys, but Williams is bringing in 2 49 100 backstrokers, including one faster than Craig smith, so I suspect that they will be in the thick of it if Hart can throw down a 21.low fly leg and Maher and Melnick get back to form.
Undeniably huge pickup for Amherst though that can mitigate the loss of Spiro and Spurrell on the medley.

[ Post made via iPhone ]


200 MR Quoinones had second fastest 50 breast split so that should hold up next season. Koravos should be slightly faster than Spurrell. Romeyn a bit faster than Koravos so overall if someone is going to beat Amherst then they will need to faster than last year's time. Regardless, we'll see another new record.

400 MR I'd expect a 3:16 from Amherst as Koravos and Romeyn should be 1.5 seconds faster than last year's swimmers. As you point out having a 43 free anchor in big in this race.

My guess is that Amherst defends its 200 MR title but Tufts repeats in the 400 MR.


Quoinones split 24.8 at NESCACs and Manfre split 25.1 at NCAA so there isn't quite as much of a pickup there. Just looking Tufts NCAA time was about .7 faster than Amherst NESCAC time and tufts returns 3/4 of that relay (wallace who was 22.0 not returning).
It's going to be very close, the big matchups will probably be bowen vs smith (22.2 vs 23.2) and then the fly leg Koravos vs Costa (22.5 flat start) or Batt (22.3 split).....Either way it's going to be another year of fast relays
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby EphFan123 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:58 pm

Hearing of another Williams recruit. Has committed on social media, but nothing overtly public yet, so I'll hold on on names and specific times to avoid outing them (for lack of a better term).
21/46 free (24/54.low LC, both which were done in season this summer)
26.low/57 breast
Still dropping time regularly.

Williams, Amherst, and Tufts all have really strong incoming classes. Sure Tufts will have another 5+ that haven't committed on collegeswimming, and Amherst always tends to be light on the online committments. Despite that, we're seeing a ton of fast kids, headlined by Romeyn, Hart, and a lot of kids who are projected to score in 2-3 A finals. Obviously there's still a full summer of swimming, plus another season of training, but which class has the edge?
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Re: NESCAC Recruiting Classes of 2022

Postby polarbear » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:36 pm

EphFan123 wrote:Hearing of another Williams recruit. Has committed on social media, but nothing overtly public yet, so I'll hold on on names and specific times to avoid outing them (for lack of a better term).
21/46 free (24/54.low LC, both which were done in season this summer)
26.low/57 breast
Still dropping time regularly.

Williams, Amherst, and Tufts all have really strong incoming classes. Sure Tufts will have another 5+ that haven't committed on collegeswimming, and Amherst always tends to be light on the online committments. Despite that, we're seeing a ton of fast kids, headlined by Romeyn, Hart, and a lot of kids who are projected to score in 2-3 A finals. Obviously there's still a full summer of swimming, plus another season of training, but which class has the edge?


Anyone have a feel for the Conn class? Point being, looks like a bigger and bigger gap between the top 3 and the rest of the league.
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